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rant, rant rant rant rant rant
Entil'Zha
I see famous people
in Zocalo v2.0
Ok, no offense to any of you who are teenagers but..
what the FUCK is wrong with teenagers today, Friday morning, my 17 year old daughter, says she doesn't want to go to school, we tell her that she must go, and she says that she'll jsut miss the bus, knowing that i have to go to work and can't take her, so we tell her, that if she misses the bus, her trip to NYC is off for next week.
so that night, she comes to my wife's work and informs us that we "made her feel bad, and hurt her feelings" by forcing her to go to school, adn that she would not be coming home.
So she went and moved herslelf out, thats the first part of the rant, part 2 is.
Legally, we can't to shit to make her come home, aparently over the past 10 years parents have lost all rights, once your kid hits 16, they can pretty much do whatever they want. What the Fuck...
what the FUCK is wrong with teenagers today, Friday morning, my 17 year old daughter, says she doesn't want to go to school, we tell her that she must go, and she says that she'll jsut miss the bus, knowing that i have to go to work and can't take her, so we tell her, that if she misses the bus, her trip to NYC is off for next week.
so that night, she comes to my wife's work and informs us that we "made her feel bad, and hurt her feelings" by forcing her to go to school, adn that she would not be coming home.
So she went and moved herslelf out, thats the first part of the rant, part 2 is.
Legally, we can't to shit to make her come home, aparently over the past 10 years parents have lost all rights, once your kid hits 16, they can pretty much do whatever they want. What the Fuck...
Comments
part 1: just tell her that life sucks sometime; get over it! seriously, if life were fair we'd all be in deep trouble! i know school sucks and all, but i cant believe how incredibly handicapped id be if i hadnt finished school (sure as hell wouldnt be at uni, tho im not sure how i got in anyway)
part 2: if we'd know politicians and lawyers would one day come from the gene pool, we'd have stayed in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea!
i think the only thing you can do is to just quietly try to support her as best you can with out making a big deal of it until she realises her mistake
Popular culture (TV, movies, music, advertisements, etc) has created a startlingly oversexualized and anti-intellectual generation, and it's only getting worse.
In high school I took Honors courses with people who, by my estimation, should be taking Standard (low-level) or even remedial courses.
[B]There were between twenty and thirty kids in my graduating class of 250 whom I consider to possess basic intelligence. I'm not exaggerating at all.
Popular culture (TV, movies, music, advertisements, etc) has created a startlingly oversexualized and anti-intellectual generation, and it's only getting worse.
In high school I took Honors courses with people who, by my estimation, should be taking Standard (low-level) or even remedial courses. [/B][/QUOTE]
She's a smart girl, she just has the common sense of a whelk,
as for telling her what she should do, she's no longer speakign to me, she 's beein checkign in with her mother once a day, but i don't expect that to last for long,
the only thing we can do, is call my friend who is the chief of police, and ask him if he'd be willing to do us a favor and drag her home, but if we do that, she'll never forgive us,
so i guess we just have to let her go, since there doesn't seem to be anythign else we can do untill she decides to grow the fuck up.
[B]She's a smart girl, she just has the common sense of a whelk,
as for telling her what she should do, she's no longer speakign to me, she 's beein checkign in with her mother once a day, but i don't expect that to last for long,
the only thing we can do, is call my friend who is the chief of police, and ask him if he'd be willing to do us a favor and drag her home, but if we do that, she'll never forgive us,
so i guess we just have to let her go, since there doesn't seem to be anythign else we can do untill she decides to grow the fuck up. [/B][/QUOTE]Sorry, went on a rant of my own, didn't mean to imply anything about your daughter. :indyface:
I'm hardly qualified to talk about this... I don't understand my own generation any better than you do, it seems.
Then at 2nd grade of gymnasium (I guess its the same as high school), I told my mom I wanted to drop out. She just said no. We argued a bit about it, but then I decided to continue (It was afterall just another year), and thats one of the best decisions Ive ever made. Ive gone to a couple of schools since then (most recently the blacksmith school Im attending), and every single one has asked me about my F grades from gymnasium. Since many schools are interview based, I know that many schools dont even think about interviewing people who has dropped out (even if they have since made up for it by studying at an adult school).
But I can't really give you any advice because I've never been in the situation you're in (you, your daughter and wife).
[B]and change your locks in case she falls in with a bad crowd. [/B][/QUOTE]
On the other hand, if shes coming home, she might come uninvited, and I know that I would never have wanted to come home if my mom and dad changed locks after I ran away.
[B]On the other hand, if shes coming home, she might come uninvited, and I know that I would never have wanted to come home if my mom and dad changed locks after I ran away. [/B][/QUOTE]
well we have to , since we have a lot of cash lying around, but she knows that if she wants to come home she can, but she's stubborn, and will NEVER admit that she was wrong.
Plus, after next week when she goes to New York, id ont think she'll be comeing back to the state.
and again, if I do have her dragged back, she'll enver speak to us again, at least now she's communicating.
[B]well we have to , since we have a lot of cash lying around, but she knows that if she wants to come home she can, but she's stubborn, and will NEVER admit that she was wrong.
Plus, after next week when she goes to New York, id ont think she'll be comeing back to the state.
and again, if I do have her dragged back, she'll enver speak to us again, at least now she's communicating. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok, I do have one advice. Treat her as an adult. Dont drag her home.
[B]well we have to , since we have a lot of cash lying around, but she knows that if she wants to come home she can, but she's stubborn, and will NEVER admit that she was wrong.
Plus, after next week when she goes to New York, id ont think she'll be comeing back to the state.
and again, if I do have her dragged back, she'll enver speak to us again, at least now she's communicating. [/B][/QUOTE]
[EDIT]Just a note, this is not from personal experience, only friends I have seen who went through similar situations.[/EDIT]
Entil,
Sounds like you have the right idea, she has to make her own mistakes, and the only thing you can do is be supportive. That doesn't mean you can should send her money, just tell her you love her and will honor the decision she's made.
No matter how illogical the decision or how much it hurts you, do not turn your back on her. If she decides to come home since she's broke and finds that life on her own is much harder than she realized, welcome her back with love, no "I told you so" or "You made your bed".
Jake
[B]Why doesn't she want to go to school? [/B][/QUOTE]Haven't been 17 in a while, have you? :p
yes, you should be supportive of her descisions, but make it clear that because she is doing so against your wishes and you feel she's disadvantaging herself by making such choices. You need to make sure she knows exactly what your motorvations are.
If you can, perhaps using Mum as a conduit, ask to meet her on neutral ground, a library or somewhere quiet where you can talk. By not bringing her home, you're surrendering your 'home turf' advantage. That should have powerful psychological weight. You're treating her as an adult. You have to make it clear to her that she is a 'young woman in control of her own destiny', (even if shes only that in her own head for the moment).
Then...
The following should come from your mouth, in your own paraphrasing.
"It's obvious your Mom and I don't undertand your perspective. We don't understand where you're coming from and it's led to this situation. We want to fix it, or atleast get on the road to fixing it.
Your Mom and I read this book.
[url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1885705026/qid=1118801885/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-5994809-7913665?v=glance&s=books&n=507846[/url]
We did the little profiler thingy at the front and we came up as "this", your Mom is "this"... I'm guessing you are "this". Do you want to prove me wrong ? *grin* (trust me on this, the book is a good idea, even if you dont agree with what it has to say, it will all but guarnatee you'll end up talking about who you are, who she is and why that's oil and water try to mix..:) )
With any luck you'll start a discourse. You will make some sort of compromise, offer her a token of her freedom, you're throwing her a bone of some sort. She in turn, toes the line on what's important to you.
Off the cuff I'd say something like, 'no curfew, but you sure as hell call us if you stay elsewhere, no exceptions, no matter how hot he is.' something of that nature which infers her maturity, even if she isnt yet.
Maturity is almost a self fulfilling prophecy with kids it seems. :) You tell them sideways what it is and they end up growing into it.. :)
The hard part is getting to the arguing negotiating table. The second hardest part is the swallowing hard and letting her have some sort of privledge which may take some real getting used to on your behalf.
Best of luck, and please, let us know how it goes. :)
I got the whole scolding thing from the cops "your a spoiled brat." And all that it didn't really hit me till I ended up in court...
I didn't speak to my parents for a year seriously I said not even one word to them or kids at school for that matter. IT fucked things up but I survived, probably stronger from it now.
You don't even know what shes dealing with? Honestly she needs a brick right on her head. Shes either gonna end up hospitalized or dead take your pick. And make sure shes not going to "Hollywood". :)
MY suggestion if you have to be an asshole be an asshole...This isn't about points its about your daughter you really care about...
Tell the officer your situation let them talk it out.
Infact theres a good movie with Susan Sarenden & NatPo where this same kinda situation occurs.
[URL=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0149691/]Anywhere but Here[/URL]
the cop convinces her to stay the situation is between the mother & daughter though.
I KNOW its a movie but art imitates life
[B]Haven't been 17 in a while, have you? :p [/B][/QUOTE]
no, although quite a few people would question I ever made it past that age :D but that's actually irrelevant in this case.
All I've heard in this thread so far is one side of the discussion.
I want to know what her specific issues are.
what does she want?:shadow1:
And in Norway the agelimit is 18..so until then this isnt that big a problem I think.
[B]what does she want?:shadow1: [/B][/QUOTE]
I had a little rebellion in my teens, as I said above, and most of it was because I didnt want to be treated like a kid anymore. So, my mom and I went over everything (stuff like she not being allowed to clean my room anymore, cause I wanted the room to be 'my place' so to speak). And after that, my parents treated me differently, better. Not so much of "we know whats best for you" and a whole lot of "its your decicion, were behind you, whatever you choose". It really bettered our relationship.
[B]I had a little rebellion in my teens, as I said above, and most of it was because I didnt want to be treated like a kid anymore. So, my mom and I went over everything (stuff like she not being allowed to clean my room anymore, cause I wanted the room to be 'my place' so to speak). And after that, my parents treated me differently, better. Not so much of "we know whats best for you" and a whole lot of "its your decicion, were behind you, whatever you choose". It really bettered our relationship. [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh i rebelled plenty, lots of partying , lots of drinking, lots of drugs, But i stayed in school, held down a full time job, was never late, hungover yes, but never late, lol,
She knows that she's always welcome to come home, adn we have made it perfectly clear that she's made the decision to move out, she's on her own financially, the only problem is, im' pretty sure her aunts are going to give her money, and if they know where she runs off to, they won't tell us, which just makes things worse, they think they are helping her, but they are just making it worse.
whoever said she needs a brick to the head, is 100% right,. or a poke in the eye
By supporting her, they are doing harm in two ways, first they sheilding your daughter from reality by giving her money, and at worst, may be creating an altered sense of reality, were there are no consequenses since there is someone to fall back on.
Second they are automaticly creating a good cop - bad cop senario, with you and your wife playing the bad cops. This is probably more for their own benefit than yours, getting the feeling of being the good guy in the situation.
Jake
[B]By supporting her, they are doing harm in two ways, first they sheilding your daughter from reality by giving her money, and at worst, may be creating an altered sense of reality, were there are no consequenses since there is someone to fall back on.
Second they are automaticly creating a good cop - bad cop senario, with you and your wife playing the bad cops. This is probably more for their own benefit than yours, getting the feeling of being the good guy in the situation.
Jake [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh they've been diong that for years.
I *have* been rather stupid, but returned to my senses without my parents even knowing, multiple years before finishing school. I haven't even faced it down with the "system" (obligatory military service), neither at hide-and-seek nor legal proceedings. I slipped from its reach without the system even noticing.
When I had a problem with my parents, I told them what I considered the problem -- perhaps occasionally in less reasonable fashion than I should have... but apparently, well enough to get the message across.
By the time of approaching the final two grades... I knew I wanted to finish school... because I knew I wanted to study biology or biotechnology. I couldn't know I would leave university and become a programmer... but I did realize I needed to finish school.
-------
Has she ever told... *why* she considers school such a difficult thing? Or has she mentioned... why she considers justified the risk of *not* having this qualification (for presenting to future places of study, or possible employers)?
It never occurred to me... that I would *not* want to test my skills against others, and obtain the best diploma I can.
From my subjective viewpoint it appears... that whatever reason causes an opposite wish... must be pretty weighty -- best if known and discussed, since it could likewise cause other risky choices.
P.S. To the comment about "having her dragged home" I say -- don't look into that barrel, unless you know her better than yourself. People differ.Not everyone lets themselves be pushed around. Some defend. And everyone has a threshold beyond which they never forget. It merely differs.
It is impossible to force a person to be happy. Sometimes however, it is possible to help a person reconsider what they wish... and which courses of action are conductive to achieving it.
[B]and again, if I do have her dragged back, she'll enver speak to us again, at least now she's communicating. [/B][/QUOTE]
It's a shame you can't enroll her in some personal or family counseling. I'm guessing that if she doesn't want to go, they can't enforce attendance at 17. That said, would you rather have her not talking to you and safe at home or talking to you and out in the real world on her own at 17?
But be ready to listen, not to talk.
The suggestion of asking *why* she doesn't want to go to school is excellent. Also ask her if something else in her life is bothering her.
Listen first, don't interrupt, counsel later, nag never.
I don't have a teenage daughter, I never was a rebellious teen (beyond drinking and staying out too late with my friends), but I had parents that listened, and I really appreciated it. I'm sure that helped a lot in my not being more rebellious.
Tell her that if she thinks she's ready to take her decisions as an adult you can respect that, but also let her know that both of you will always welcome her back, and that you would like it if she could also listen to your concerns, opinions and suggestions.
She'll be more receptive after you listen to her.
I'm not suggesting that you never listened to her, but teenagers tend to have that impression that nobody listens to them.
And somehow I suspect women are more prone to that.
I've had some problems with my wife, and listening to her, without interrupting nor criticizing was always helpful.
It is a hard thing to do, it's hard to learn not to be defensive when a loved one is criticizing you.
It can hurt you, but it heals the hurt of the other one, and in the end that makes it worth it.
Also, it may take more than one talk, but that can even be helpful in that in between communications you can reflect back on what you were told and can think of something better to say next time.
I hope it all turns out well.
If you buy it yourself, its likely to be the best 20 or so bucks you ever spent.
You might even uncover some uncomfortable truths about you and your wife and (gasp!), your daughter may have a couple valid points. Nobody's perfect, not you or your daughter.
Understanding is the answer.