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Bombing has started...
This morning, the U.S. and allied partners launched strikes against Afganistan military targets. [i]And so it begins...[/i]
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[i]"Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain."[/i]
G'Kar, Season 3
Please check out the Babylon 5 mod for Battlecruiser Millenium at [url="http://mods.firstones.com/B5BCM"]http://mods.firstones.com/B5BCM[/url]
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[i]"Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain."[/i]
G'Kar, Season 3
Please check out the Babylon 5 mod for Battlecruiser Millenium at [url="http://mods.firstones.com/B5BCM"]http://mods.firstones.com/B5BCM[/url]
Comments
Worf
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"Playing computer and video games doesnt create murderers and terrorists....cancelling computer and video games creates them." -Me-
Join the fight for freedom at [url="http://www.newrepublic.de"]http://www.newrepublic.de[/url] and [url="http://www.isd-imperium.co.uk"]http://www.isd-imperium.co.uk[/url]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
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Born from silence, silence full of it
A perfekt concert my best friend
So much to live for, so much to die for
If only my heart had a home
-Nightwish:Dead boy's Poem-
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[b]don't say we didnt warn them[/b][/quote]
Very true. They had there chance. I think we will do this the right way (bomb military/terrorist targets, avoiding civilians). Also, giving them food is going to help alot. What is scary, is you know they had a plan for when we attacked (i.e. another terror strike). Lets just hope we eliminated it.
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[i]"Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain."[/i] G'Kar, Season 3
Please check out the Babylon 5 mod for Battlecruiser Millenium at [url="http://mods.firstones.com/B5BCM"]http://mods.firstones.com/B5BCM[/url]
Now...lets just hope Usama's little backup plan fails.
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
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[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
%0
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I AM AWAKE AT 4AM TO THE TERRIFYING UNDENIABLE TRUTH THAT THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO TO STOP THE MONSTER
America is a BIG stumbling block for all arab nations that are against Israel. As long as we are a balancing power, it's tough for them to do much substantially against Israel.
Eventually some guy over there will attempt to nuke New York, either as a terrorist attack, or as a specific target in a military exchange. Probably missing it in the first strike due to Patriot or some other anti missile tech, then others on that side of the world will break their treaties and agreements with the US (that they've hated for so long), and take the opportunity to attack us on a much larger scale...
How could this happen?
Internal breakdown within the US from strategically placed traitors and terrorists.
Also Russian leaders still favor the muslim cause, and if the coalition, or more importantly the US specifically steps over some line drawn in the sand by Middle Eastern entities, Russia might be inclined to put her arsenal to use with her own coalition, not really caring about the cost or impact globally. Many still think they can win a nuclear war over there.
It is REAL likely that there will be a Nuclear Terrorist attack within the next few years or decade. Once again New York as the prime target.
If this were to happen, it is probable that others might try to move in for the kill during the chaos.
This "war on terrorism" we have engaged, although a necessary response to terrorism, will pan out as the key to a much larger scale incident in the end.
Make no mistake, these are perilous times, and we aren't going to gain any quick resolutions to a war that will likely take decades to stop. The people over there see us as a threat to their way of life, and elements of their religion. That doesn't go away very easily if ever.
And... America must diminish, if not all out disappear, for Europe to come to full power, and the Asian empire to flourish.
This may seem like doom and gloom, but I just don't see any happy ending coming real soon.
America is about to taste the pain and displeasure that we have, only up until this point, watched from abroad.
God bless America... She's going to need it!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
[b]Things will only get worse.
America is a BIG stumbling block for all arab nations that are against Israel. As long as we are a balancing power, it's tough for them to do much substantially against Israel.
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
I honestly believe that Any Nuclear attack from afghanistan, would signal the total distruction of that country.
If they were to do that, i believe that they would literally be wiped off the face of the earth.
the US is not a small country that you can cripple with one blow. It would take a more sustained attack than they can possibly mount IMHO.
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..And so it Begins
I fear the natural law of unintended consequences.
nuff said. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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[b]Things will only get worse.
America is a BIG stumbling block for all arab nations that are against Israel. As long as we are a balancing power, it's tough for them to do much substantially against Israel.
[/b][/quote]
“The Islamo-fascist ideology of Osama bin Laden and those closest to him, such as the Egyptian and Algerian "Islamic Groups", is no more intrinsically linked to Islam or Islamic civilization than Pearl Harbor was to Buddhism, or Northern Irish terrorists are to Christianity. Serious Christians don't go around killing and maiming the innocent; devout Muslims do not prepare for paradise by visiting Florida strip bars and getting drunk, as one of last week's terrorist pilots was reported to have done.
”The attacks of September 11 are simply not compatible with orthodox Muslim theology, which cautions soldiers "in the way of Allah" to fight their enemies face-to-face, without harming non- combatants, women or children.
”Most Muslims, not only in America and Britain, but in the world, are law-abiding citizens of their countries - a point stressed by President Bush and other American leaders, much to their credit.
“Bin Laden is a Wahhabi. So are the suicide bombers in Israel. So are his Egyptian allies, who exulted as they stabbed foreign tourists to death at Luxor not many years ago, bathing in blood up to their elbows and emitting blasphemous cries of ecstasy. So are the Algerian Islamist terrorists whose contribution to the purification of the world consisted of murdering people for such sins as running a movie projector or reading secular newspapers. So are the Taliban-style guerrillas in Kashmir who murder Hindus. The Iranians are not Wahhabis, which partially explains their slow but undeniable movement towards moderation and normality after a period of utopian and puritan revivalism. But the Taliban practise a variant of Wahhabism. They employ ancient punishments - such as execution for moral offences - and they have a primitive and fearful view of women. The same is true of Saudi Arabia's rulers. None of this extremism has been inspired by American fumblings in the world, and it has little to do with the tragedies that have beset Israelis and Palestinians.
“For Westerners, it seems natural to look for answers in the distant past, beginning with the Crusades. But if you ask educated, pious, traditional but forward-looking Muslims what has driven their umma, or global community, in this direction, many of them will answer you with one word: Wahhabism. This is a strain of Islam that emerged not during the Crusades, nor even at the time of the anti- Turkish wars of the 17th century, but less than two centuries ago. It is violent, it is intolerant, and it is fanatical beyond measure. It originated in Arabia, and it is the official theology of the Gulf states. Wahhabism is the most extreme form of Islamic fundamentalism.
”Not all Muslims are suicide bombers, but all Muslim suicide bombers are “Wahhabis - except, perhaps, for some disciples of atheist Leftists posing as Muslims in the interests of personal power, such as Yasser Arafat or Saddam Hussein. Wahhabism is the Islamic equivalent of the most extreme Protestant sectarianism. It is puritan, demanding punishment for those who enjoy any music except the drum, and severe punishment up to death for drinking or sexual transgressions. It condemns as unbelievers those who do not pray, a view that never previously existed in mainstream Islam.
”It is stripped-down Islam, calling for simple, short prayers, undecorated mosques, and the uprooting of gravestones (since decorated mosques and graveyards lend themselves to veneration, which is idolatry in the Wahhabi mind). Wahhabis do not even permit the name of the Prophet Mohammed to be inscribed in mosques, nor do they allow his birthday to be celebrated. Above all, they hate ostentatious spirituality, much as Protestants detest the veneration of miracles and saints in the Roman Church.
”Ibn Abdul Wahhab (1703-1792), the founder of this totalitarian Islamism, was born in Uyaynah, in the part of Arabia known as Nejd, where Riyadh is today, and which the Prophet himself notably warned would be a source of corruption and confusion. (Anti-Wahhabi Muslims refer to Wahhabism as fitna an Najdiyyah or "the trouble out of Nejd".) From the beginning of Wahhab's dispensation, in the late 18th century, his cult was associated with the mass murder of all who opposed it. For example, the Wahhabis fell upon the city of Qarbala in 1801 and killed 2,000 ordinary citizens in the streets.”
This information is from an article on the beginning of radical Islam by Stephen Schwartz, the author of Intellectuals and Assassins, published by Anthem Press. The article appears in the current edition of The Spectator, England. You can read the entire article at [url="http://www.sierratel.com/randyl/SoapBox3.htm"]http://www.sierratel.com/randyl/SoapBox3.htm[/url] , which is my political page. Take the link to “Updates” and then scroll down to the article.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 10-07-2001).]
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There are 3 things in life I never forget: my friends, my enemies, and my access codes.
Never put gasoline in a fire extinguisher.
"No government, no dictator can hold an imprisioned population by force of arms forever. There is no power in the universe greater than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies [i]cannot stand[/i]." - G'Kar, [i]The Long Twighlight Struggle[/i]
[url="http://www.globalserve.net/~archons"]www.globalserve.net/~archons[/url]
[This message has been edited by Talon Mistsong (edited 10-07-2001).]
OBL broadcasting from Hell earlier today.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 10-07-2001).]
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They do if they believe they're doing God's work. Many religions has a funny way of making people of other religion not people at all. Like a certain newspaper article by God said, the Muslims massacred the Hindus, the Hindus massacred the Muslims, and the Christians killed just about everyone they can get their hands on since the Crusades.
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"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Though I have a question. What proof do we have of the date of Osama's little video? Everybody keeps saying that it was recorded earlier today. I find that hard to believe.
I know that the CNN translators were having to translate the video on the fly, and so may have made a few mistakes in the translations, but I did hear the words (paraphrasing), "what America is going through today is what Muslims go though every day" or something like that.
Now what does he mean by "today"? Does he mean the alleged fear that America is feeling because of the 9/11 attacks? Or is he talking about the attacks themselves?
Maybe this was recorded closer to 9/11 or ON 9/11....it's probably just me, but it seems a little too much like he's talking about the 9/11 attacks....
I missed some of his dietribe...did he mention anything that would help nail down the date of the video?
[b]Serious Christians don't go around killing and maiming the innocent;
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They do if they believe they're doing God's work. Many religions has a funny way of making people of other religion not people at all. Like a certain newspaper article by God said, the Muslims massacred the Hindus, the Hindus massacred the Muslims, and the Christians killed just about everyone they can get their hands on since the Crusades.
[/b][/quote]
I think that the point folks are trying to make is that, regardless of what religious affiliation extremists claim, their goals are not really “religious” in nature, unless it is a self-described religion of intolerance, and centralized power on their own behalf.
It is possible for extremists to incite uneducated and uninformed masses, especially if those people are young and already feel somehow marginalized or repressed. I don’t think that followers of the major religions in the world have an automatic predisposition towards violence. Just the opposite. I think that the major religions of the world teach methods for peaceful living.
What I’m trying to say is that we need to make a distinction between what the religions teach, and how they are exploited by extremists who have their own non-religious (in any sane, generally accepted sense) agendas, which are more likely to involve political power and the enforcement of an isolated, twisted, intolerant point of view.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 10-07-2001).]
[b]I just have to say this, it makes me mad, and dont think i dont wholeheartedly support USA's attack on terrorism today...
But, and this is a big but...
US ALWAYS attack the capitol of the country they are bombing. Let me just ask this: how many capitols have big military targets hidden within?
Ok, I know what you are thinking: Perhaps it was terrorist targets. Its just that its always this way...
Im not trying to start a flamewar here. Just venting heat...
[/b][/quote]
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[i][b][url="http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/"]http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/[/url]
Vir - Are you saying you don't trust me anymore? I made your favourite, Spoo.
Londo - I'll order in.[/b][/i]
Erm, a country that has been at war for the last few years with the opposition forces army less than 30 miles away sure as hell has lots of military targets inside it.
This isn't even getting into the command and control, radar and other military structures and systems.
And to clear up some of your mistakes on who is attacking, it's not just the USA. It's also Great Britain. The Italians, Germans, Candians, French, Australians and afew other European nations will be joining in as well.
The world has had it up to it's neck with these terrorists and the governments that harbor and supply them.
No matter...
Its a waste of civilians and old buildings though, thats why... *sigh*
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[i][b][url="http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/"]http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/[/url]
Vir - Are you saying you don't trust me anymore? I made your favourite, Spoo.
Londo - I'll order in.[/b][/i]
All I can add is that war always sucks.
Wouldn't it be great if we could find a way to neutralize troublemakers, and deal with disagreements without resorting to war?
Maybe that'll happen one day. I know a lot of people are working for that. But for now, we live in the world we live in.
[b]Good one, Randy.
Though I have a question. What proof do we have of the date of Osama's little video? Everybody keeps saying that it was recorded earlier today. I find that hard to believe.
I know that the CNN translators were having to translate the video on the fly, and so may have made a few mistakes in the translations, but I did hear the words (paraphrasing), "what America is going through today is what Muslims go though every day" or something like that.
Now what does he mean by "today"? Does he mean the alleged fear that America is feeling because of the 9/11 attacks? Or is he talking about the attacks themselves?
Maybe this was recorded closer to 9/11 or ON 9/11....it's probably just me, but it seems a little too much like he's talking about the 9/11 attacks....
I missed some of his dietribe...did he mention anything that would help nail down the date of the video?[/b][/quote]
It was definatly recorded before the bombs started falling. From NPR(my source of info)'s description, it would seem he recorded it, sent one of his flunkies to the local TV stations with the tape and a yellow sticky note saying "Play when the Great Saten begins bombing." The best evidince supporting this is that the tape was filmed in what looked to be natural sunlight. From the begining of the attacks to the broadcast of the tape, it was midnight/early morning in that area of the planet.
not even a tomahawk can fly into a man sized tunnel entrance.
and whats one more crater in a place which resembles the surface of the moon ?
the US, and its token allies ( I besmirch no-one by saying so, perhaps only Britian has added anything genuinely signiftcant to the actual force ) have to go in boots and all or not at all.
regardless of Osama's fate I think about six people will miss the Taliban...
as for Osama... if he actually does get caught.
Then the real circus begins...
My hope is he tries running discreetly and crosses a full strength SAS patrol and then tries to fight his way out.
and another few points...
I wonder how many Stingers are still in the hands of the Taliban.
Don't cry for the Afgans they are probably one of the most resilent races on the planet, they will survive.
And heres one right out of left field.
According to the mythos of the fictional "World of Darkness", ( a roleplaying backstory for White Wolf RPG's ), the anti-deluvian Malkav, one of the thirteen children of Caine lairs in the Middle East. Malkav's personal curse is madness and his power is so great that as he sleeps beneath the mountians his aura permeates the entire area. If you live within his 'aura' you fate is to join him in madness.
Perhaps thats all some writers desperate attempt to explain to himself why the Middle East is the way it is.
But right now, a fanciful and irrational reason seems to fit this seemingly irrational place...
Worf
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"Playing computer and video games doesnt create murderers and terrorists....cancelling computer and video games creates them." -Me-
Join the fight for freedom at [url="http://www.newrepublic.de"]http://www.newrepublic.de[/url] and [url="http://www.isd-imperium.co.uk"]http://www.isd-imperium.co.uk[/url]
They attack civilians and target them. They try to kill innocent people.
We do our damndest to avoid killing civilians and don't target them. Hell, we've been feeding their people for years.
Some may die, but that's war. Always been that way, always will.