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Tough Delenn

In a review about "Severed Dreams", someone had this to say about Delenn:

"It was SO GREAT getting to see Delenn be her good ol' butt-kicking self from the first season again, especially knowing ahead of time that this will be just about the very last of this side of her we'll ever see..."


I will never understand why certain people feel that women have to act tough to be considered equal or superior to men. I will never understand.

Comments

  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Strange, that comment doesn't seem to mention thinking that Delenn is only equal or superior to men when she's in butt-kicking mode.

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    [b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
    Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
    The Balance provides. The Balance protects.

    "Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
  • MelkorMelkor Elite Ranger
    No offence, but I honestly dont see anything even remotely sexist about that comment, let alone anything comparing her to any man. Not seeing the artical, that comment only sounds to me that the author liked that aspect of her character and was none-to-happy that it wasn't going to be seen much, if ever, for the remainder of the series. I mean, I can't see any sexists comments in that at all...only commentary on an aspect of a characters personality, not comparison and certainly nothing demeaning.

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    Is bad....is bad to open airlock in space... air go out like WOOSH!
  • [quote]Originally posted by Claudia Trent:
    [b]In a review about "Severed Dreams", someone had this to say about Delenn:

    "It was SO GREAT getting to see Delenn be her good ol' butt-kicking self from the first season again, especially knowing ahead of time that this will be just about the very last of this side of her we'll ever see..."


    I will never understand why certain people feel that women have to act tough to be considered equal or superior to men. I will never understand.

    [/b][/quote]

    Sorry my eyes are failing me maybe? That says nothing about men and women ..
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    [b]Claudia Trent[/b]: While you have created some nice, thought provoking threads in the past, this one is a dud. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
  • what about that episode where she takes out a bunch of drakh vessels.
  • Admiral AndyAdmiral Andy Earthforce Officer
    She certainly had no problem telling off the Shadows in "Into the Fire" Shakiri in the last ep of the Minbari Civil War.
  • I didn't post the entire article. In fact, the author of this review complained about the lack of "butt-kicking" Delenn scenes in later seasons. And in the review for "Severed Dreams", she admitted to being a feminist and being thrilled at the number of female characters getting involved in the battle or saving the day.
  • I, personally, like the divergent types of "heroes" B5 has. There are tough ones as well as quiet ones...

    I found Boxleitner's "I am the master hero" Sheridan performance to be quite annoying towards the end of the show.

    Delenn, on the other hand, acted up when it was meaningful to the situation. Typical "I concentrate on the important things" female style of a 'tough' woman. Combined with her sensibility (she knows her weaknesses and tries to work on them or accept them), that makes a far tougher appearance.

    ------------------
    We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
    No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
    - Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
    Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
  • samuelksamuelk The Unstoppable Mr. 'K'
    I don't see that quote as a general comment about women. It's a comment about Delenn. Her character is strong, and you really see that in Severed Dreams. The quote never mentions anything about women and equality to men. You're making some pretty big assumptions.

    Delenn is known for kicking butt. She hadn't done much of that until Severed Dreams. Apparently, someone was glad to see it. What's the big deal?
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    I'm certainly getting tired of this thread already...

    :/
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    Sooo...Swiss Cheese or none at all?
  • An ex-SquidAn ex-Squid Elite Ranger
    (yawn) I'll take cheddar instead...

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    "Lies, damn lies, and statistics..." (secret motto of the Internal Revenue Service)

    Just another stubborn Naval Reservist...
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Camembert!

    ------------------
    [b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
    Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
    The Balance provides. The Balance protects.

    "Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
  • I have no problem with Delenn kicking butt. I have a problem with those who believe that showing a female character kicking butt is the only way she can be strong.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Delenn isn't shown to be strong because she kicks butt. She spends much more time being far stronger in other ways.

    ------------------
    [b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
    Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
    The Balance provides. The Balance protects.

    "Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
  • ArikArik Galen's Apprentice
    Sorry Claudia, but I have to agree with Biggles on this one.

    To see Delenn being strong without kicking butt, watch the last episode of Season 4, The Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

    Delenn makes a very strong case there without kicking butt or anything else for that matter.


    [This message has been edited by Arik (edited 12-06-2001).]
  • Apparently, I'm being misunderstood.

    I have no problems with Delenn kicking butt.

    I have no problems with Delenn being strong without kicking butt.

    What I'm trying to say is that many believe that the only way for a female character to be strong is to be shown as being aggressive in a physical way or in the way Delenn was being aggressive in episodes like "Severed Dreams" and "Lines of Communication".
  • ArikArik Galen's Apprentice
    Ah, yes, there seems to be no shortage of people like that. It's unfortunate, but a fact of life.

    However, I don't think you'll find that sort of people on this board.
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    Can you say...

    "Dead horse" ?
  • Admiral AndyAdmiral Andy Earthforce Officer
    DEAD WHORE!
  • Can you say "brain dead"? (No offense, but that's *exactly* the point [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img])

    [quote]Originally posted by Claudia Trent:
    [b][...] many believe that the only way for a female character to be strong is to be shown as being aggressive [...]
    [/b][/quote]

    IMHO, that problem has its base in the strange and unhealthy relationship between strength and aggressiveness that is being promoted by short-minded politicians, media and because it was men's/mankind's prehistoric weapon of choice against life-endangering ...um... dangers.
    While humankind faces extremely different problems in this time, many still feel the same (which is "normal") and act the same (which is mostly unnecessary and a primary danger for human societies).

    @Arik: You have a point, but that is actually an example where many don't see her as strong. *We* do, and I think the scene was meant to be strong.

    ------------------
    We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
    No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
    - Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
    Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
  • I would ask, how else should someone be shown as strong? Either stong in a physical sense (the kicking butt sense) or in the willful sense (Delen towards the end of series 4).
    Delen exhibits both forms of strength, as do the vast majority of other characters.
    What's the problem here?
    %0

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    I AM AWAKE AT 4AM TO THE TERRIFYING UNDENIABLE TRUTH THAT THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO TO STOP THE MONSTER
  • Admiral AndyAdmiral Andy Earthforce Officer
    Sorry, when I get tired, I start posting random crap like that. None taken. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
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