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No Spec Work!
JackN
<font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
in Zocalo v2.0
Someone else posted this on LWG3D.org from a Craig's List post, just had to share...
Spot on!
:D
[quote]
[SIZE="5"]Before you post seeking work from an artist, read on[/SIZE]
[I]Reply to: [email]job-267155638@craigslist.org[/email]
Date: 2007-01-23, 11:38AM CST[/I]
Hello business-people please read!
Every day, there are more and more CL posts seeking "artists" for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs.
More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.
But what they're NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.
To those who are "seeking artists", let me ask you;
How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? ...none?
More than likely, you don't know any. Otherwise, you wouldn't be posting on craigslist to find them.
And this is not really a surprise.
In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators.
There are eleven times as many certified mechanics.
There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.
So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free?
Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?
Would you offer a neurosurgeon the "opportunity" to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor?
(Maybe you could offer him "a few bucks" for "materials". What a deal!)
Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?
If you answered "yes" to ANY of the above, you're obviously insane.
If you answered "no", then kudos to you for living in the real world.
But then tell me... why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?
Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen.
As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person.
In short, it makes you look like a twit.
A few things you need to know;
1. It is not a "great opportunity" for an artist to have his work seen on your
car/'zine/website/bedroom wall, etc.
It IS a "great opportunity" for YOU to have their work there.
2. It is not clever to seek a "student" or "beginner" in an attempt to get work for free. It's ignorant and insulting.
They may be "students", but that does not mean they don't deserve to be paid for their hard work.
You were a "student" once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real world?
Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.
3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by other people, whether it's one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement.
Neither is the right to add that work to their "portfolio".
They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should.
It's not compensation. It's their right, and it's a given.
4. Stop thinking that you're giving them some great chance to work.
Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them.
There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people who possess these skills.
5. Students DO need "experience". But they do NOT need to get it by giving their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway.
Do you think professional contractors list the "experience" they got while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother's house when they were seventeen?
If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would be able to pay for the services it received.
The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.
6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.)
Some will ask you to "submit work for consideration". They may even be posing as some sort of "contest".
These are almost always scams.
They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the "contest", or be "chosen" for the gig, and find what they like most.
They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications to it, and claim it as their own.
You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest.
The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads.
This is speculative, or "spec", work. It's risky at best, and a complete scam at worst.
I urge you to avoid it, completely.
For more information on this subject, please visit [url]www.no-spec.com[/url]
So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are "spec" gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.
And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free... please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you're accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.
Please copy and repost daily so that our profession may be respected.[/quote]
Spot on!
:D
[quote]
[SIZE="5"]Before you post seeking work from an artist, read on[/SIZE]
[I]Reply to: [email]job-267155638@craigslist.org[/email]
Date: 2007-01-23, 11:38AM CST[/I]
Hello business-people please read!
Every day, there are more and more CL posts seeking "artists" for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs.
More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.
But what they're NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.
To those who are "seeking artists", let me ask you;
How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? ...none?
More than likely, you don't know any. Otherwise, you wouldn't be posting on craigslist to find them.
And this is not really a surprise.
In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators.
There are eleven times as many certified mechanics.
There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.
So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free?
Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?
Would you offer a neurosurgeon the "opportunity" to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor?
(Maybe you could offer him "a few bucks" for "materials". What a deal!)
Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?
If you answered "yes" to ANY of the above, you're obviously insane.
If you answered "no", then kudos to you for living in the real world.
But then tell me... why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?
Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen.
As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person.
In short, it makes you look like a twit.
A few things you need to know;
1. It is not a "great opportunity" for an artist to have his work seen on your
car/'zine/website/bedroom wall, etc.
It IS a "great opportunity" for YOU to have their work there.
2. It is not clever to seek a "student" or "beginner" in an attempt to get work for free. It's ignorant and insulting.
They may be "students", but that does not mean they don't deserve to be paid for their hard work.
You were a "student" once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real world?
Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.
3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by other people, whether it's one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement.
Neither is the right to add that work to their "portfolio".
They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should.
It's not compensation. It's their right, and it's a given.
4. Stop thinking that you're giving them some great chance to work.
Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them.
There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people who possess these skills.
5. Students DO need "experience". But they do NOT need to get it by giving their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway.
Do you think professional contractors list the "experience" they got while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother's house when they were seventeen?
If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would be able to pay for the services it received.
The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.
6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.)
Some will ask you to "submit work for consideration". They may even be posing as some sort of "contest".
These are almost always scams.
They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the "contest", or be "chosen" for the gig, and find what they like most.
They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications to it, and claim it as their own.
You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest.
The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads.
This is speculative, or "spec", work. It's risky at best, and a complete scam at worst.
I urge you to avoid it, completely.
For more information on this subject, please visit [url]www.no-spec.com[/url]
So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are "spec" gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.
And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free... please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you're accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.
Please copy and repost daily so that our profession may be respected.[/quote]
Comments
BOO FREAKING YEA!
Chinese auto manufacturer Chery automotive products, makers of a wide range of fine-quality outright ripoffs ([url]http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/18/content_401235.htm[/url]) have recently announced no less than a grand 'ol spec-project of their own! Design their new logo for them! $297,000 US or something is the prize, but why do work for a project of that level in a field where it's doubtful any fair competition actually exists for so many of the reasons you posted?
:D j/k
I think the problem is, people think that artist just "doodle on the side", that its not a real profession. Its just idle stupidity, but it is amplified by the lack of good illustrators to defend the position.
[B]I think the problem is, people think that artist just "doodle on the side", that its not a real profession. Its just idle stupidity, but it is amplified by the lack of good illustrators to defend the position. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, not quite. Peter David has made this point often, being a comic-book writer (to which 4 out of 5 people respond "Comic books have [i]writers[/i]?") You meet a guy who can draw, really draw, and you know you can't do that. Meet a writers, and you know you can do that (assuming you're literate). The skill gap between "normal" and "talented" doesn't seem the same for the two arts, though it is.
I suppose that might be part of the reason for the reversal of respect in the business world. Anyone can write, so ad-copy-writers, and technical writers are seen as normal people who you wouldn't shaft in such a transparent fashion. However, artists can make things that your average guy can't come close to, and market themselves based on this making it easier to write them off as naive savants and starry-eyed dreamers.
I have to say, though, that thing about there being half as many illustrators as brain surgeons made me feel a hell of a lot more confident about declaring Digital Media as my major a couple weeks ago. I constantly have the "Sure, I love to do this 3D stuff as a hobby, but will I still enjoy it when I need it to put food on the table?" thought. My current answer is "Probably," but it does change from time to time.
I'm a graphic designer (for a company), and I just hate it when I see a client asking us to do sketchs for a job and MAYBE giving us the contract after, while they asked the same thing at the same time from different graphic design firms (I know that because I live in a small town and I've worked at most biggest design firms, so I know a lot of people!).
Then the client compile all the work from everyone, then they go to another design company (the one that is charging way less money) and bring them all the design ideas that they have collected, for almost nothing, so they save on the design cost (big time). It doesn't happen often tho, at least.
The ironic thing is that it's often the design companies themselves that are in some way responsible for the spec work phenomena by allowing this to happen by "collaborating" with those kind of clients.
Oh well, like I said, it doesn't happen often here where I live, but it does seems to happen more often than usual... We just gonna have to be careful with those "special clients" I guess!
- Agima
[B]I have to say, though, that thing about there being half as many illustrators as brain surgeons made me feel a hell of a lot more confident about declaring Digital Media as my major a couple weeks ago. I constantly have the "Sure, I love to do this 3D stuff as a hobby, but will I still enjoy it when I need it to put food on the table?" thought. My current answer is "Probably," but it does change from time to time. [/B][/QUOTE]
Boy, do I know that one...
I'm New Media, myself, and it the thoughts that race through my mind on a regular basis are rife with fears of heading nowhere, being dissatisfied with my future career, etc. At this point, I'm almost through my degree and am no less confident in how much I will actually enjoy the field, even having worked in it so many times.
She was going to offer some $50 for it, which to me was a joke. But a lot of people at school were selling themselves cheap because they were studying still..
Oh, and its amazing how many people ask me for a free nail, when Im demonstrating how to make them..
Even in IT, it's amazing how many people will come to you and ask you to fix their PCs or laptops for them. ;)
It usually stops when you start charging a fee. :D
But I agree, it's a widespread problem.
[B]I think those general rules apply to all kinds of professions.[/b][/quote]
This is true, I have had a couple of people approach me and ask me to do stuff for free that they would get something out of (nowhere near as common as artists seem to get, though). It hasn't happened very often though, in general I've had suitable compensation for contracting work I've done.
[quote][b]Even in IT, it's amazing how many people will come to you and ask you to fix their PCs or laptops for them. ;)
It usually stops when you start charging a fee. :D[/b][/quote]
My standard fee for technical support for friends is a king-size bar of chocolate. I've never had any complaints about it so far. :)
I had one friend who I would assist on many occasions for an order of fries...
The straw came one day when, for this paultry wage, I was given the third degree because that friend purchased equipment for a similar setup I had running, but could not get it running because they were attempting a dual boot between NT and 98 I think, and some devices balked at NT because NT wasn't being advanced past 4.0 sp6a because of Windows 2000.
I didn't suggest this setup, wasn't my fault they bought it, and after the brow beating, I said fuck it...
I don't fix shit / help others fix shit anymore...
I guess I am bitter...
no good deed goes unpunished...
:s
It's just not good, and I never learn my lesson.
Also, Family. Ugh. Again, a lesson I never learn.
Oh well, back to reading books about stuff that doesn't matter and feeling sorry for myself. ;)
But I'm sure if you were on a university campus, your chances of getting asked for help would probably rise significantly.
If I were stuck out in the desert somewhere, I'm sure the need for an IT specialist would be significantly reduced. :D
Well, and so would that of a historian, I guess. ;)
I don't know, I think I'm just venting because I have no idea what I will do with myself when I finish school.
why not teach at the high school level? Thats my plan if all else fails I should be about 26 when I'm done with school.
Biggles'll be in school till he nutrient take runs out of nutrients and polysaturates!
However, finding a teaching job in Western Pennsylvania is rather difficult because, quite frankly, teachers make a lot of money around here. For that reason (as well as others) I don't wish to move out of state. So, I may find myself doing something else after I graduate until I find a teaching position.
[B]If I were stuck out in the desert somewhere, I'm sure the need for an IT specialist would be significantly reduced. :D
Well, and so would that of a historian, I guess. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Given your condition as a marine biologist, wouldn't that make you just as unnecessary in a desert? :P
[B]Given your condition as a marine biologist, wouldn't that make you just as unnecessary in a desert? :P [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sure most of us westies would die miserably. BTW, I'm not a marine biologist, so I'd probably die too. I'd hope that marine biologists would know a little bit about survival, because at sea you are surrounded by water, but you can't drink a drop of it.
However, just because they know about it doesn't mean they'd know about surviving it. For all we non-marine biologists know, they could just be comfortable in their understanding that their fate is sealed. :P