[quote]That implies a single player universe.[/quote]
Nope.
I was thinking more along the lines of writing mini-stories (perhaps for a certain player that a writer takes interest in, or else just setting them up in general) that a player can partake of in some particular part of the game universe. If a group of players are together, they can all take part in the same story, otherwise each player plays it separately. The mini-stories could be adjusted, added or deleted as time goes by to take into account the movement of the global story.
I know of a MUD that does this to a slight extent... without the story changing over time. It presented some odd situations, where you could meet with people ahead of you in the story, but as long as people stayed in character it worked out.
I only offered this as an alternative for the interactive MMORPG story. Of course many players will have similar experiences - but at least you won't need one writer per five players.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Hmmm true. But it would be difficult to keep track of each story. SB's dreaming about a [b]lot[/b] of players. I guess so long as each player doesn't run into the same story twice it would be ok.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
consider the specifics of 'my' universe fellas..... it doesnt take much to put a 'dumb ship' onto the spacelanes... to keep most of the punters happy... its only the odd 'story laden' vessel that only some of the punters get... maybe even just one ship gets the 'juicy chunk' of story... its thier job to disseminate the stroy arc... and bask in the glory of being one of the bigger cogs in this universe...
basically you reward people with good logs of time online... good players or play a wild card occasionally...
f'rinstance.... a new class of superbulk freighter... say 6 million tonnes... has a strange new buldge onder the crew section...
some are stuffed with a flight of fighters... a control and power centre for a super phalanx system to paste small ships... a defense grid...
or even worse... a humungus and exceptionally illegal mass driver which all but destroys pirates in one shot...
something like that would scream out across the BB's inside the game...
bounties posted for capture...etc etc etc rewards for information... etc etc etc...
this way you can disseminate story very artfully... slowly change the storyverse to suit A, your planned story arc B, market research indicators, C, input from punters in a more direct way...
frinstance again... one of these crews lucks out and captures this mondo vessel and manages to get away with it...
kills the planned story... but offers and opportunity to push the story another way...
and the lucky sods who pull off the heist get humungus cred and kudos...
everyones happy... writer ( as long as he/she isnt precious and like flux ), punter and the accountant because the companies rich.. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
One thing to be wary of would be some players not getting any story. This would quickly bore them, as all they would be doing would be shipping cargo or capturing cargo. Granted, some players would enjoy doing that and nothing else, but most would want the story.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
true biggles true... but... I think its a good shift in story based games... one solitary punter is not the centre of the universe.... in 'real life' how many times have you felt like the axis of the world ?
the old fifteen minutes of fame routine...
and pirate crews earning thier stripes the hard way... rewarding effort inside the games universe...
this whole concept is pitched half way between the 'tortured and frustrated thesbian' and the hardcorz shootemups... there's room for both under its umbrellas...
it just has to be good storytelling to keep the 'tufts' happy.. (tortured thespians)
they will stick out like sore thumbs on the BB's with long dissertations... they want story... so you send them ships full of intrigue rather than the pile of weapons you send out for the hardcorz...
even if you dont pitch exactly the right ship to the right crew/warpbridge... the hardcorz may ignore what a tuft may drool over... so be it... there is always another ship... and another shipment...
thats the beauty of controlling content... you can tailor it to your audiences demand...
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
But... I [b]am[/b] the axis of the world!
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Your point?
Which reminds me, I have a fully working version ready for you now. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
The text-to-speech I've been looking at is [url="http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola.html"]MBROLA[/url]. It doesn't handle any animation aspects, but emotion/emphasis can be tweaked nicely - to the extent where they've done synthesised [i]singing[/i]. And there's a lot of different voices available.
It's also free for non-commercial use, permission needed for redistribution as part of a free program, but I'm not sure what their terms are for commercial use. Although if anyone can get their drama working within the next few years... well...
It's my planned test-bed anyway. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
That TextPuppet thing looks very interesting. This sort of technology is going to be vital to interactive drama in the future. Being able to recognise what people are saying to the characters and then creating something to say back is needed to carry the realistic world aspect of the experience. Canned speech is not the way to go becayse it is simply not versatile enough, and giving the user set options of what to say is even worse.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I've actually been looking for a text-to-speech program that still sounds like the late 70' or 80's style.
You know, like the speech box for Stephen Hawkings, or the one used for War Games, or the speech used for Voice-of-World-Control, in the Colossus movie. Although the latter two were probably special Sound FX.
I remember way back when Radio Shack had the TRS-80's and they had a speech box that used alophones(SP?)
I still have a speech chip and it's text-to-alophone library chip somewhere in my shed. I should dig that out and build that kit!
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I used to have Sam on the C64. That one was great! And it could actually do all the inflections and stuff that the textpuppet one does, it was just a real bitch to set up.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
The one in my tank is quite good.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
speaking of tanks.. have you seen the new Amniolog 2250's ?
It uses a grafted adult sized umbilical cord, you get all your nutrients and O2 via this new cord, so you can abreviate the digestive system and remove the lungs and use the space for other cyberware or built in 'wetware' computer...
the only downside is it uses the same system a baby uses in the womb to recycle and clean the tank amniotic fluid. You gulp it down... and.. well... excrete the clean stuff...(why let a perfectly good set of kidneys lie idle) [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
( That is incidentally why we humans yawn... before you go 'bye-byes' in the womb. You take a big gulp of amniotic fluid... so when you wake up you dont have to do quite so much 'spring cleaning'. A baby recycles all its amniotic fluid in 24hrs. Yawning is a babies way of tidying thier room... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] )
Excuse me for interrupting this still ongoing discussion, but we, IFH team, would like to thank ITF team and especially John Walker for sharing some "sacred knowledge" on AI ground.
Here are first results of application of the "theory":
Two flight groups (starfuries and raiders) are performing "destroy all hostiles" goal (via command hierachy and goal/task/behavoir patterns mechanism)
[url="http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-01.jpg"]http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-01.jpg[/url]
[url="http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-02.jpg"]http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-02.jpg[/url]
[quote][b]...( That is incidentally why we humans yawn... before you go 'bye-byes' in the womb. You take a big gulp of amniotic fluid... so when you wake up you dont have to do quite so much 'spring cleaning'. A baby recycles all its amniotic fluid in 24hrs. Yawning is a babies way of tidying thier room... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] )[/b][/quote]
That's a [i]theory[/i]. But no one really knows for sure why people yawn. The explanation given in medical school is that yawning is the result of low levels of oxygen in the lungs. I don't see how a baby could clean amniotic fluid.
Anyhoo, not to sidetrack this really cool discussion. Great screenshots from IFH, too...I can't wait to see how this game turns out. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Nice shots. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] The explosions are nifty.
Having partially (I gather) implemented the AI, have you discovered any interesting good or bad points about the system?
Re yawning:
Try holding your breath for ages, and see if you start yawning. I don't, indicating to me that there must be a different reason other than low oxygen. (Although that's the theory that's been explained to me too.)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
The theory I've heard the most is a combination of lack of oxygen in the blood and too-high CO2 level, all caused by slowing resperation rate that occurs when the body becomes tired.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Anyway, to bring this thing back on topic:
Let's talk a bit about story/plot design, shall we? Randy, I beleive you'll be interested in this.
To start off: Let's say I have the beginning of the story, an idea for the story, and the end of the story. What's the best way for mapping out routes the story could take?
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Because it's [b]really[/b] caused by the Yawn Fairie. But don't tell anyone, it's supposed to be a secret.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
TextPuppet reminds JackN of 70s/80s style speech? I think I'll avoid it. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I don't know about anyone else's experiences, but I got rather disappointed at how robotic a lot of text to speech programs sounded, especially from the largest companies.
[quote]Originally posted by GrantNZ:
[b]TextPuppet reminds JackN of 70s/80s style speech? I think I'll avoid it. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I don't know about anyone else's experiences, but I got rather disappointed at how robotic a lot of text to speech programs sounded, especially from the largest companies.[/b][/quote]
Actually, that wasn't what [i][b]I[/b][/i] said at all...
I said the US English Male voice 1 in their library is what I was looking for. I've been after the older robotic sound for some personal reasons. They have other voices and settings that sound much more fluid etc.
Quite frankly, what I have heard so far from almost every TTS program or hardware I have tried still sounds too machine like.
I know they are moving along in quality, but that takes time.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Where's Randy gone?
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Comments
Nope.
I was thinking more along the lines of writing mini-stories (perhaps for a certain player that a writer takes interest in, or else just setting them up in general) that a player can partake of in some particular part of the game universe. If a group of players are together, they can all take part in the same story, otherwise each player plays it separately. The mini-stories could be adjusted, added or deleted as time goes by to take into account the movement of the global story.
I know of a MUD that does this to a slight extent... without the story changing over time. It presented some odd situations, where you could meet with people ahead of you in the story, but as long as people stayed in character it worked out.
I only offered this as an alternative for the interactive MMORPG story. Of course many players will have similar experiences - but at least you won't need one writer per five players.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
basically you reward people with good logs of time online... good players or play a wild card occasionally...
f'rinstance.... a new class of superbulk freighter... say 6 million tonnes... has a strange new buldge onder the crew section...
some are stuffed with a flight of fighters... a control and power centre for a super phalanx system to paste small ships... a defense grid...
or even worse... a humungus and exceptionally illegal mass driver which all but destroys pirates in one shot...
something like that would scream out across the BB's inside the game...
bounties posted for capture...etc etc etc rewards for information... etc etc etc...
this way you can disseminate story very artfully... slowly change the storyverse to suit A, your planned story arc B, market research indicators, C, input from punters in a more direct way...
frinstance again... one of these crews lucks out and captures this mondo vessel and manages to get away with it...
kills the planned story... but offers and opportunity to push the story another way...
and the lucky sods who pull off the heist get humungus cred and kudos...
everyones happy... writer ( as long as he/she isnt precious and like flux ), punter and the accountant because the companies rich.. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
the old fifteen minutes of fame routine...
and pirate crews earning thier stripes the hard way... rewarding effort inside the games universe...
this whole concept is pitched half way between the 'tortured and frustrated thesbian' and the hardcorz shootemups... there's room for both under its umbrellas...
it just has to be good storytelling to keep the 'tufts' happy.. (tortured thespians)
they will stick out like sore thumbs on the BB's with long dissertations... they want story... so you send them ships full of intrigue rather than the pile of weapons you send out for the hardcorz...
even if you dont pitch exactly the right ship to the right crew/warpbridge... the hardcorz may ignore what a tuft may drool over... so be it... there is always another ship... and another shipment...
thats the beauty of controlling content... you can tailor it to your audiences demand...
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Which reminds me, I have a fully working version ready for you now. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[url="http://www.puppetsoft.com/"]http://www.puppetsoft.com/[/url]
The text-to-speech I've been looking at is [url="http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola.html"]MBROLA[/url]. It doesn't handle any animation aspects, but emotion/emphasis can be tweaked nicely - to the extent where they've done synthesised [i]singing[/i]. And there's a lot of different voices available.
It's also free for non-commercial use, permission needed for redistribution as part of a free program, but I'm not sure what their terms are for commercial use. Although if anyone can get their drama working within the next few years... well...
It's my planned test-bed anyway. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
You know, like the speech box for Stephen Hawkings, or the one used for War Games, or the speech used for Voice-of-World-Control, in the Colossus movie. Although the latter two were probably special Sound FX.
I remember way back when Radio Shack had the TRS-80's and they had a speech box that used alophones(SP?)
I still have a speech chip and it's text-to-alophone library chip somewhere in my shed. I should dig that out and build that kit!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Besides, the text-to-speech interface for that one needs a lot of work...
heh heh
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
It uses a grafted adult sized umbilical cord, you get all your nutrients and O2 via this new cord, so you can abreviate the digestive system and remove the lungs and use the space for other cyberware or built in 'wetware' computer...
the only downside is it uses the same system a baby uses in the womb to recycle and clean the tank amniotic fluid. You gulp it down... and.. well... excrete the clean stuff...(why let a perfectly good set of kidneys lie idle) [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
( That is incidentally why we humans yawn... before you go 'bye-byes' in the womb. You take a big gulp of amniotic fluid... so when you wake up you dont have to do quite so much 'spring cleaning'. A baby recycles all its amniotic fluid in 24hrs. Yawning is a babies way of tidying thier room... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] )
Here are first results of application of the "theory":
Two flight groups (starfuries and raiders) are performing "destroy all hostiles" goal (via command hierachy and goal/task/behavoir patterns mechanism)
[url="http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-01.jpg"]http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-01.jpg[/url]
[url="http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-02.jpg"]http://www.b5.ru/cgi-bin/ccgref.pl?u=/ifh/ifhshot-011119-02.jpg[/url]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
That's a [i]theory[/i]. But no one really knows for sure why people yawn. The explanation given in medical school is that yawning is the result of low levels of oxygen in the lungs. I don't see how a baby could clean amniotic fluid.
Anyhoo, not to sidetrack this really cool discussion. Great screenshots from IFH, too...I can't wait to see how this game turns out. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Nice shots. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] The explosions are nifty.
Having partially (I gather) implemented the AI, have you discovered any interesting good or bad points about the system?
Re yawning:
Try holding your breath for ages, and see if you start yawning. I don't, indicating to me that there must be a different reason other than low oxygen. (Although that's the theory that's been explained to me too.)
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Let's talk a bit about story/plot design, shall we? Randy, I beleive you'll be interested in this.
To start off: Let's say I have the beginning of the story, an idea for the story, and the end of the story. What's the best way for mapping out routes the story could take?
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Why is yawning so damn contageous when someone starts it?
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I like it much better than the other one.
That US English male voice 1 is exactly what I was looking for.
Guess I'll have to purchase that one!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I don't know about anyone else's experiences, but I got rather disappointed at how robotic a lot of text to speech programs sounded, especially from the largest companies.
[b]TextPuppet reminds JackN of 70s/80s style speech? I think I'll avoid it. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I don't know about anyone else's experiences, but I got rather disappointed at how robotic a lot of text to speech programs sounded, especially from the largest companies.[/b][/quote]
Actually, that wasn't what [i][b]I[/b][/i] said at all...
I said the US English Male voice 1 in their library is what I was looking for. I've been after the older robotic sound for some personal reasons. They have other voices and settings that sound much more fluid etc.
Quite frankly, what I have heard so far from almost every TTS program or hardware I have tried still sounds too machine like.
I know they are moving along in quality, but that takes time.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras