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ATTN: All US citizens READ.
A2597
Fanboy
in Zocalo v2.0
Just heard this on the news...
apparently our government is trying to pass legislation that allows them COMPLETE access to all personal transactions, e-mails, logs of everysite you visit, credit card useage, just about everything.
trying to find additional info online now...
(Such as ways to keep this from going though).
if this goes though....anyone know a nice house for sale in Australa?
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
apparently our government is trying to pass legislation that allows them COMPLETE access to all personal transactions, e-mails, logs of everysite you visit, credit card useage, just about everything.
trying to find additional info online now...
(Such as ways to keep this from going though).
if this goes though....anyone know a nice house for sale in Australa?
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Comments
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
By the way, this part of the bill -- the access to credit card statements, e-mail, web logs, etc. -- was not in the original Homeland Security bill. It was added during the last days before the House passed it, hidden among some four hundred other pages of additions. The original bill was less than forty pages, which should tell you something about how crummy laws get passed: they get tacked on to otherwise perfectly legitimate bills, which must then either be passed with the terrible changes in place, or refused entirely. I'm of the opinion that the Homeland Security bill should have been refused entirely due to this and many, many other frivolous additions.
One other aspect should be noted: this type of monitoring is already mostly in place for many European countries. Doesn't mean I want it here, though. The idea is that the government has complete legal access to pretty much all records kept by corporations, without warrant. It therefore has access to your credit card company's record of your expenditures. To your ISP's record of your user name and IP address. To all sorts of other personally identifiable information that, really, they have no business knowing without warrant. I find this insulting.
My guess is that the law will be immediately challenged once activated; it'll probably spend a year or two on its way to the supreme court, where it will likely be struck down as a violation of the fourth amendment. That is my hope, anyway.
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
That being said, I suggest everyone that is a US resident call their congressman and give them an earfull about this anyways. Just to be on the safe side.
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[b][url="http://www.savefarscape.com/"]SAVE FARSCAPE![/url][/b]
"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't, have to go! Kiss! Kiss! Love! Love! Bye! *kiss*" - G'Kar
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
For now though, all any of us can do is keep our eyes open and watch to see if we are just overeacting or if the shadows are truly falling on America.
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We Live as one, We die as one, We will face the darkness as one.
"Understanding is a Three Edged Sword- Your side, Their side, And the Truth...."
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
Fatherland for Germany.
Homeland for us now. It was never, ever called this before the Bush administration started pushing these new laws.
I support all 10 of the Bill of Rights. Does your president?
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
"The American people just don't have a clue as to what's coming." - James Carville, 11/06/02
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 11-22-2002).]
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[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I also expect Secret Service knocks on my door, being a contributing author to
[url="http://www.democraticunderground.com"]http://www.democraticunderground.com[/url]
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
My only real hope is that, given enough rope, the [insert favorite word here] will hang themselves in the court of public opinion. Their own greedy excesses and lack of common sense may do them in. This is a dangerous gamble though; they could hang us all in the process.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
Plato
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 11-22-2002).]
like I said, if this goes though, I might just move to Australia.
ohh..theres an idea for a pettition.
Bush: "Yes?"
Cab member: "Umm, sir, we just got a pettition about that new bill..."
B: "Yea, whats it say?"
C: well...it solved the over crouding issue.
B: hows that?
C: roughly 3/4 of the US citizens moved out. Went to Canada and Australia.
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
The bill that Bush submitted and the bill that was eventually passed are two almost entirely different animals. Despite that, I still think that Bush will sign it, particularly given the large margins by which it passed: 299-121 in the House, and 90-9 in the Senate.
Once signed into law, it will take a long time to implement, since a great deal of it calls for finding new ways to do things to accomodate the government's snooping. During that time, I find it highly likely that it will be challenged in the courts, probably fast-tracking to the Supreme Court, where I can't imagine it [i]not[/i] being struck down as a violation of the fourth amendment.
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
pay cash, only buy what you absopositively have to buy online.
reduce your exposure to 'big brother'
or have a revolution...
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Now if we can just convince them it does give us the right to own howitzers, I know where there are some for sale [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
Heil Shrub!
Heil Shrub!
Heil Shrub!
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
Doesn't mean I like it; I happen to think those countries that already use these kinds of tactics are dead wrong....
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
If you don't like what is going on, propose an alternate plan to rectify a solution rather then sit there and bitch.
You think that this Homland Security is an infringement of your rights, that's okay, fine. Do you have a better idea to accomplish the same goal of weeding out terrorists without violating the rights of others?
And once again, anyone who states that Bush started this whole "American imperialism" neglects the past hundred-four years. We've been on this path since Teddy Roosevelt persuaded President McKinley to involve the country with what became the Spanish-American War. While our "empire" was necessary to ensure the security of free nations during the Cold War, it is the fault of Bush Sr. and Clinton for not bringing our troops home during the post-Cold War era.
Neo-conservatives aren't radical right-wing nuts. They are a blend of conservatism on certain things (pro-life, strong military, fossil fuels, etc) yet are liberal on others (pro-free trade, interventionist foreign policies, and until recently, adding more government).
Paleo-conservatives differ in that our foreign policy is America First (we won't attack unless fired upon first or security is threatened), Protectionist (not necessarily anti-free trade, but more or less fair trade so not every factory worker's job ends up in Mexico or China), self sufficient nation (again the Protectionist deal), and less government on the federal level.
I'll have to take a look at exactly what the bill does to see if a better plan could be installed.
[This message has been edited by Admiral Andy (edited 11-25-2002).]
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
See here:
[url="http://www.freedom.gov/library/technology/darpa.asp"]http://www.freedom.gov/library/technology/darpa.asp[/url]
and here is the bill itself (all 484 pages). Look at section 892. It specificly prohibits use of this bill to violate an individuals constitutional rights:
[url="http://hsc.house.gov/legislation/hr5710.pdf"]http://hsc.house.gov/legislation/hr5710.pdf[/url]
Folks,
Please make sure you know all the facts before passing judgment. The Homeland Security Act is mainly a reorganization of existing departments and will have a minimal effect on most of us.
Jake
[This message has been edited by Freejack (edited 11-25-2002).]
Try living a little
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
[b]The Homeland Security Act is mainly a reorganization of existing departments and will have a minimal effect on most of us.
[/b][/quote]
YES!!! What he said! You people who are complaining now, where were you when the precedence was being set? All these privacy's you think you're loosing, in fact you had already lost long ago. I find the Europeans, Canadians, DownUnder'ers on the board trying to warn us about our freedoms being lost silly, look at your own nations. I remember living on the economy in Germany vividly and the vast differences.
AnlaShok: The Federal Government spending on national security has never been a problem for me. It's big government social programs that I don't care for. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/rolleyes.gif[/img] That and the Unions don't have control over the OofHLS thanks to President Bush's demands, so that in my mind was a big win for the smaller government fans.
[b]The Homeland Security Act is mainly a reorganization of existing departments and will have a minimal effect on most of us.[/b][/quote]
In general yes. But quite a few ammendments got tacked on to it that do impact us.
Anyone know where to get a list of what the ammendments do?