A friend taped it for me and the first chance that I had to watch it was tonight (school and whatnot). I guess no one else wants to talk about it until the DVD comes out so I'll wait. ;) But I will say that I liked it.
I was kind of hoping to not be the one to break the comfortable silence ;)
RazorspoilersOMG Spoiler: The Hybrid backstory was fascinating, and the tie-ins with the older BSG heritage made me very happy. The music was a tad underwhelming and the actress cast for the lead roll was not (IMHO) particularly strong enough, but I don't care. To see the story of the Pegasus from that perspective was just incredible. Knowing the outcome reduced much of the immediate shock reaction to the actions performed on Cain's orders, but simply seeing them and what it did to those nearby was more than enough to make it feel fresh enough.
Very dark for even a recent BSG episode, but considering the writer's pedigree... (Anybody remember a certain DS9 episode called "The Visitor?")
And I *wuv* the old-school raiders :)
I just couldn't help but think of the Bentusi every time Spoiler: the first hybrid spoke. It's also entertaining how this particular actor's lines in either role are similar in some respects. "The time of prophecy is at hand..."
Thinkerin time:
Spoiler: I'm more curious how this "Starbuck is the apocalypse incarnate" thing plays out. My feeling is that it is actually quite true, that she somehow does manage to begin the end. Her miraculous (and decreasingly likely Cylon) return has managed to tie her into the religious framework that has been slowly established. In a sense, she is, perhaps has always been an avatar of one of the lords of Kobol. It may very well be that this is the same god that the Cylons are worshiping. And as we also know at this point, there is actually some sort of cycle going on. A temporal loop perhaps, but it is something that allowed the mystics of the past to foretell events far beyond their reach.
So with that in mind, the return of Starbuck (as an avatar of a fallen god?) would somehow allow what appears to be described as an inescapable loop ("This has all happened before, and this will all happen again") to be broken. From the perspective of someone trapped inside an infinite loop, this would be roughly equivalent to the end of times. And somewhere in this, the remaining hybrids will be crucial. With the exception of Starbuck, they seem to be the only beings introduced to us who seem to have some hotline to the gods, able to breach the limits of space and time and somehow transcending existence as we are capable of experiencing it.
Starbuck seems to have broken through this in some way. When she was last seen, we seemed to have some form of indication that she was projecting just as all other known Cylons have. Cue the "Starbuck is a Cylon!" crowd. But it wasn't quite the same. She was interacting with a figure which was not the typical projection, not even a rough approximation of even the smallest personality traits known attributed to the form's host. Its knowledge spanned beyond that her own conscious mind, beyond even her experiences (though to a limited extent) and appeared to share a basic nature more in tune with the Sixes' descriptions of their deity than the Leoben we were familiar with. It was not a resurrection, but a holy rebirth. Plus, the old series did it, too. :p
at least we don't seem to be dealing with the white viper/flight suit...ugh
Well, since Sanfam was gracious enough to break the silence, I guess I'll chime in. :)
[Spoiler]Let me start off by saying that I am a bit of a "fanboy" when it comes to BSG, so I like most everything about it.
With that said, I LOVED Razor... a lot. As Sanfam said, despite knowing the ultimate outcome it was fresh and exciting and hopefully this (and the first part of Season 4) will be enough to carry fans through the end of the series.
I liked a lot about this movie but one of its best features for me was the juxtaposition of Cain and Adama. Both thought they were the only military survivors of the Cylon attack but each handled it completely differently. For Cain, the war never ended and they would continue fighting no matter the cost. Interestingly, this is exactly what Adama wanted to do in the Miniseries, but was ultimately restrained by Roslin. He, by virtue of having the President's "legitimate" successor with him (not to mention thousands of survivors, as well as his own son), came to the conclusion the war was in fact over. Adama himself pointed this out that he "never faced the same situations Cain did". Neither approach was completely the "right" or "wrong" thing to do, but it remained a juicy moral issue that can be debated endlessly.
I also liked the fact that Cain wasn't portrayed as a raving lunatic. She was kind of a bitch, certainly a hard ass before the attack. But the situation forced her to do what she had to in order to survive. She could no longer have compassion--this was total war in every sense. There were no longer any civilians. Just us and them. So, if 10 "innocent" people had to die so that the rest could survive then so be it.
*whew*
I'm sure I'll have more to say later. ;)
P.S. Spoiler: I loved how the Flashbacks to Young Adama established his pattern of killing Cylons with blunt objects that would be later played out in the Miniseries, a la with the flashlight at the supply depot. :D
That actor they chose to portray Adama had Olmos's voice and mannerisms down, by the way. Excellent choice!
[I]almost[/I] perfect. There was a severe lack of the 'stache, and has been since early this last season. Once you go 'stache, you never go back. Or something. It's like Tigh without the patch!
Well now that I've had a few days to digest it and am past the initial excitement of having watched it I think I can give my more calm impression of it. Overall, AWESOME! I was pulled in from the very beginning.
Spoiler: The way it was laid out, it was clearly intended for hardcore fans. The constant flashing back was done well enough to not loose the viewer along the way or get overly annoying as it has on some episodes. I still feel sorry for anyone who was not fully up to date as they will be dizzy from so much jumping back and forth on the story.
I liked how the flashbacks from the minisodes tied in well. I don't know how they found the actor who did young Adama but he was absolutely perfect. He had the right look. I don't know if that was makeup but even the skin on his face resembled Olmos. He also got the trademark Adama whisper down perfectly.
I still can't believe they brought back the old shool cylons in full force. Even down to the original 3 crew raiders and the "by your command" line. I was half expecting to see the hybrid with lucifer as his personal helper :D Quite cool overall!
It was neat to see all the Pegasus backstories finally filmed out although I did find those bits to be a bit rushed. I would have liked for the movie to have placed more weight on the Pegasus story rather than the galactica crew side of things. One thing I found somewhat paralleled the miniseries was when Cain shoots the XO and goes on the suicide attack. I know it was already laid out as part of the story long ago but a move like that was really stupid even for her character. It reminds me of the mini when Roslin makes the somewhat out of character stupid decision to insist they must stay to rescue all the survivors as they are about to get nuked by the cylons if they stay.
I still can't believe the Gina/Cain bombshell was not spoiled even with all the early reviews and screenings.
I would give it around a B+ to A- rating. I think I was half hoping it would have been the Pegasus version of the mini mostly because I kind of miss the feel the show had during that time. I would have actually loved for it to just have been completely about the Pegasud story with the assumption Galactica was gone with the rest of the fleet and rather that being called BSG:Razor just being flat out called Battlestar Pegasus.
Spoiler: I was a little disappointed in the brevity of the Pegasus story myself but all in all, I think it was done fairly well. Their story is DARK... even by Galactica standards.
[QUOTE=Sanfam;167589][I]almost[/I] perfect. There was a severe lack of the 'stache, and has been since early this last season. Once you go 'stache, you never go back. Or something. It's like Tigh without the patch![/QUOTE]
I love the patched Tigh. He's even more bitter than regular Tigh... ;)
[Spoiler]Overall I enjoyed it. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they wrote it and for once didn't seem to screw up any timelines. Character wise I felt Kendra was a bit too wooden. Yes she had to play a cold "razor" type but she did lack something.
It was interesting seeing how Cain handled things. Despite what she and her crew had to deal with, I believe she crossed the line when she shot her XO. Prior to that it appeared she trusted him and they both seemed to know where they stood and got a long well as the ships principal officers. But to shoot your own XO because he disagrees with a suicide attack is plain wrong. Given the situation they were in they needed as many skilled bodies to fight the way. Start shooting your crew and you might as well let the Cylons take you out. So while I agree she had her reasons she didn't consider the morality of her actions.
Young Adama was indeed excellent. On the whole I found the webisodes to be really good actually.
The hybrid story was fascinating! And the way they worked in the old Cylons was very well done. It didn't seem forced and provided excellent back filler on past events. The revelation at the end about Starbuck was indeed a major surprise and fascinating as well. This raised a few thoughts for me:
If Starbuck is supposed to be leading humanity to its end, does that mean the fleet and everyone in it is lost? If this has "happened before and will happen again" I'm curious as to when things "reboot" so to speak. Do they all die and then be reborn to start the cycle again? I wonder if this also ties into the Cylon virus. With it spreading they are dying probably in large numbers. Is this supposed to wipe them all out leaving only Hera as the cylon/human hybrid? If she is supposed to be the shape of things to come it will be interesting to see what role she plays.
I was also wondering about this whole cycle thing. At this stage of human development they are technologically advanced and can travel the stars etc. If everything starts again does that mean they still have this technology? Do they find earth and then start the journey again back to Kobol and the colonies? Because if they do when does the "old stuff" happened? From what we have seen of Kobol and the great temple, they seemed to be from a classical age and therefore old (i.e. build in a time when battlestars weren't whizzing round).
What I also thought was interesting was that this first hybrid was very coherent compared to the other hybrids on the base ships. They appeared to be talking gibberish (which was confirmed by one of the 5's I think) but then on touching Baltar seemed to change. Whether this has any relation to a connection with god I don't know.
Oh and one final think, was it just me or did anyone else think that some of the cgi seemed a bit lower budget than normal? Some the explosions with the old raiders didn't look quite a "nice" as they've done in the show. To me anyway.[/Spoiler]
my only complaint with the CGI was how the fleet yards shots seemed to be scripted to render on planetary physics. :p Fire going up, the jump leaving a significant vacuum, rising smoke trails... Explosions and fire seemed to be sightly more saturated than their real-world counterparts, but beside that the render quality seemed perfectly inline with past episodes.
The CG is indeed lower budget. They switched entirely to using their own in-house team for all special effects in the middle of the third season. They justify it because they can easily get three times the amount of shots they could have from Atmosphere or Zoic at the same cost. Personally, I think the in-house team isn't as good with cinematography and has serious quality assurance issues (no longer bothering to retract Galactica's flight pods for jump shots, not making use of those lovingly modeled turrets in battle scenes unless "battlestar fires" is the specific meaning of the shot, not bothering to render reflections on the Centurions when they're in CG environments and not being added into real footage and, oh yes, compositing errors such as [i]forgetting to render the Pegasus's ass in one of the shots in the final battle of Razor)[/i].
Hmm thats a let down on the effects side. Wasn't aware that switch had occurred. Its a shame especially when one looks back at how stunning the attack on the resurrection ship was.
They forgot to render Pegasus's ass??!! Damn it and I just finished watching it for the 2nd time and missed it.
I didn't pay attention righ away on the pegasus rear but I picked up something didn't seem right. I've also noticed the centurions don't look as detailed anymore. Towards the end of season 2 their rendering was amazing down to the way the enviroment reflected on them.
Well, to be more precise, they didn't forget to render it, but they did miscomposite it. It's there, but translucent, so you can see the back of the alligator head through the body of the ship. It's hard to see in a screencap, but quite apparent when it's in motion. [url=http://homepage.mac.com/david_of_mac/.Movies/Razor_Effects_Glitch.m4v]The shot in question.[/url]
I remember there was a shot with a glitch like this in the miniseries, where Galactica didn't have the shadow layer composited in, and had the flight pods extended, even though they'd just made a big deal of them retracting for the jump. I thought it was quite cool that Zoic apparently fixed the shot later, because a corrected version with shadows and retracted pods was used in the teaser of "Scattered."
Just got around to watching the DVD version of Razor. Spoiler: The extra footage has a few interesting things like Cains past but overall nothing spectacular. Then again it was to be expected. Anything that was too juicy would have made it to the aired version. The deleted scenes were actually quite interesting
I suspected as much. The intention that was apparently applied to most of this stuff is "We're not making webisode-specific content anymore because of the licensing problems: See strike for details." So I'm fine with that as long as we are provided decent content, which we were. Spoiler: Though seeing the parafight made the weak CGI really damned apparent. Doh.
Comments
RazorspoilersOMG Spoiler: The Hybrid backstory was fascinating, and the tie-ins with the older BSG heritage made me very happy. The music was a tad underwhelming and the actress cast for the lead roll was not (IMHO) particularly strong enough, but I don't care. To see the story of the Pegasus from that perspective was just incredible. Knowing the outcome reduced much of the immediate shock reaction to the actions performed on Cain's orders, but simply seeing them and what it did to those nearby was more than enough to make it feel fresh enough.
Very dark for even a recent BSG episode, but considering the writer's pedigree... (Anybody remember a certain DS9 episode called "The Visitor?")
And I *wuv* the old-school raiders :)
I just couldn't help but think of the Bentusi every time Spoiler: the first hybrid spoke. It's also entertaining how this particular actor's lines in either role are similar in some respects. "The time of prophecy is at hand..."
Thinkerin time:
Spoiler: I'm more curious how this "Starbuck is the apocalypse incarnate" thing plays out. My feeling is that it is actually quite true, that she somehow does manage to begin the end. Her miraculous (and decreasingly likely Cylon) return has managed to tie her into the religious framework that has been slowly established. In a sense, she is, perhaps has always been an avatar of one of the lords of Kobol. It may very well be that this is the same god that the Cylons are worshiping. And as we also know at this point, there is actually some sort of cycle going on. A temporal loop perhaps, but it is something that allowed the mystics of the past to foretell events far beyond their reach.
So with that in mind, the return of Starbuck (as an avatar of a fallen god?) would somehow allow what appears to be described as an inescapable loop ("This has all happened before, and this will all happen again") to be broken. From the perspective of someone trapped inside an infinite loop, this would be roughly equivalent to the end of times. And somewhere in this, the remaining hybrids will be crucial. With the exception of Starbuck, they seem to be the only beings introduced to us who seem to have some hotline to the gods, able to breach the limits of space and time and somehow transcending existence as we are capable of experiencing it.
Starbuck seems to have broken through this in some way. When she was last seen, we seemed to have some form of indication that she was projecting just as all other known Cylons have. Cue the "Starbuck is a Cylon!" crowd. But it wasn't quite the same. She was interacting with a figure which was not the typical projection, not even a rough approximation of even the smallest personality traits known attributed to the form's host. Its knowledge spanned beyond that her own conscious mind, beyond even her experiences (though to a limited extent) and appeared to share a basic nature more in tune with the Sixes' descriptions of their deity than the Leoben we were familiar with. It was not a resurrection, but a holy rebirth. Plus, the old series did it, too. :p
at least we don't seem to be dealing with the white viper/flight suit...ugh
[Spoiler]Let me start off by saying that I am a bit of a "fanboy" when it comes to BSG, so I like most everything about it.
With that said, I LOVED Razor... a lot. As Sanfam said, despite knowing the ultimate outcome it was fresh and exciting and hopefully this (and the first part of Season 4) will be enough to carry fans through the end of the series.
I liked a lot about this movie but one of its best features for me was the juxtaposition of Cain and Adama. Both thought they were the only military survivors of the Cylon attack but each handled it completely differently. For Cain, the war never ended and they would continue fighting no matter the cost. Interestingly, this is exactly what Adama wanted to do in the Miniseries, but was ultimately restrained by Roslin. He, by virtue of having the President's "legitimate" successor with him (not to mention thousands of survivors, as well as his own son), came to the conclusion the war was in fact over. Adama himself pointed this out that he "never faced the same situations Cain did". Neither approach was completely the "right" or "wrong" thing to do, but it remained a juicy moral issue that can be debated endlessly.
I also liked the fact that Cain wasn't portrayed as a raving lunatic. She was kind of a bitch, certainly a hard ass before the attack. But the situation forced her to do what she had to in order to survive. She could no longer have compassion--this was total war in every sense. There were no longer any civilians. Just us and them. So, if 10 "innocent" people had to die so that the rest could survive then so be it.
*whew*
I'm sure I'll have more to say later. ;)
P.S. Spoiler: I loved how the Flashbacks to Young Adama established his pattern of killing Cylons with blunt objects that would be later played out in the Miniseries, a la with the flashlight at the supply depot. :D
That actor they chose to portray Adama had Olmos's voice and mannerisms down, by the way. Excellent choice!
Spoiler: The way it was laid out, it was clearly intended for hardcore fans. The constant flashing back was done well enough to not loose the viewer along the way or get overly annoying as it has on some episodes. I still feel sorry for anyone who was not fully up to date as they will be dizzy from so much jumping back and forth on the story.
I liked how the flashbacks from the minisodes tied in well. I don't know how they found the actor who did young Adama but he was absolutely perfect. He had the right look. I don't know if that was makeup but even the skin on his face resembled Olmos. He also got the trademark Adama whisper down perfectly.
I still can't believe they brought back the old shool cylons in full force. Even down to the original 3 crew raiders and the "by your command" line. I was half expecting to see the hybrid with lucifer as his personal helper :D Quite cool overall!
It was neat to see all the Pegasus backstories finally filmed out although I did find those bits to be a bit rushed. I would have liked for the movie to have placed more weight on the Pegasus story rather than the galactica crew side of things. One thing I found somewhat paralleled the miniseries was when Cain shoots the XO and goes on the suicide attack. I know it was already laid out as part of the story long ago but a move like that was really stupid even for her character. It reminds me of the mini when Roslin makes the somewhat out of character stupid decision to insist they must stay to rescue all the survivors as they are about to get nuked by the cylons if they stay.
I still can't believe the Gina/Cain bombshell was not spoiled even with all the early reviews and screenings.
I would give it around a B+ to A- rating. I think I was half hoping it would have been the Pegasus version of the mini mostly because I kind of miss the feel the show had during that time. I would have actually loved for it to just have been completely about the Pegasud story with the assumption Galactica was gone with the rest of the fleet and rather that being called BSG:Razor just being flat out called Battlestar Pegasus.
[QUOTE=Sanfam;167589][I]almost[/I] perfect. There was a severe lack of the 'stache, and has been since early this last season. Once you go 'stache, you never go back. Or something. It's like Tigh without the patch![/QUOTE]
I love the patched Tigh. He's even more bitter than regular Tigh... ;)
[Spoiler]Overall I enjoyed it. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they wrote it and for once didn't seem to screw up any timelines. Character wise I felt Kendra was a bit too wooden. Yes she had to play a cold "razor" type but she did lack something.
It was interesting seeing how Cain handled things. Despite what she and her crew had to deal with, I believe she crossed the line when she shot her XO. Prior to that it appeared she trusted him and they both seemed to know where they stood and got a long well as the ships principal officers. But to shoot your own XO because he disagrees with a suicide attack is plain wrong. Given the situation they were in they needed as many skilled bodies to fight the way. Start shooting your crew and you might as well let the Cylons take you out. So while I agree she had her reasons she didn't consider the morality of her actions.
Young Adama was indeed excellent. On the whole I found the webisodes to be really good actually.
The hybrid story was fascinating! And the way they worked in the old Cylons was very well done. It didn't seem forced and provided excellent back filler on past events. The revelation at the end about Starbuck was indeed a major surprise and fascinating as well. This raised a few thoughts for me:
If Starbuck is supposed to be leading humanity to its end, does that mean the fleet and everyone in it is lost? If this has "happened before and will happen again" I'm curious as to when things "reboot" so to speak. Do they all die and then be reborn to start the cycle again? I wonder if this also ties into the Cylon virus. With it spreading they are dying probably in large numbers. Is this supposed to wipe them all out leaving only Hera as the cylon/human hybrid? If she is supposed to be the shape of things to come it will be interesting to see what role she plays.
I was also wondering about this whole cycle thing. At this stage of human development they are technologically advanced and can travel the stars etc. If everything starts again does that mean they still have this technology? Do they find earth and then start the journey again back to Kobol and the colonies? Because if they do when does the "old stuff" happened? From what we have seen of Kobol and the great temple, they seemed to be from a classical age and therefore old (i.e. build in a time when battlestars weren't whizzing round).
What I also thought was interesting was that this first hybrid was very coherent compared to the other hybrids on the base ships. They appeared to be talking gibberish (which was confirmed by one of the 5's I think) but then on touching Baltar seemed to change. Whether this has any relation to a connection with god I don't know.
Oh and one final think, was it just me or did anyone else think that some of the cgi seemed a bit lower budget than normal? Some the explosions with the old raiders didn't look quite a "nice" as they've done in the show. To me anyway.[/Spoiler]
And, sorry to drag this back on-topic, but WHERE THE FRELL ARE THE FARSCAPE SHORTS?
They forgot to render Pegasus's ass??!! Damn it and I just finished watching it for the 2nd time and missed it.
I remember there was a shot with a glitch like this in the miniseries, where Galactica didn't have the shadow layer composited in, and had the flight pods extended, even though they'd just made a big deal of them retracting for the jump. I thought it was quite cool that Zoic apparently fixed the shot later, because a corrected version with shadows and retracted pods was used in the teaser of "Scattered."
Hey, and, um, just have one small, quick question, namely
[SIZE="7"]WHERE THE FRELL ARE THE FARSCAPE SHORTS?????[/SIZE]