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Muslim thread locked?
JackN
<font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
Not that I'm upset or anything, but why did it get locked, and why right after my post?
???
???
Comments
Such a shame
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
Many have gotten sick of them.
BTW - it isn't just this BBS that is having a sudden increase of political threads. I have seen it on quite a few I visit. Maybe there is a reason for that?
[b]It’s locked because the boards resident fascist decided to squash all political/religious debate/talk…
Such a shame[/b][/quote]
It's comments like this that make me sad. Especially here.
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[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I know I've done it and only realized how stupid it looks afterward, then it's too late. Try to use some common sense & restraint and everyone benefits.
Give me a break guys. Are we living in China here? If you don't like the discussion, don't read it. Besides, people weren't being insulting, people weren't flamming and people weren't yelling. What gives?
If the mods here are going to close topics because they simply don't like them on a personal level, that's censorship. What country did you people grown up in where this is acceptable?
It's an "off-topic" forum. Debates on ANYTHING are allowed, especially civil, intelligent ones.
An FYI for those who cannot stand other people's views: you'd better get used to it, cause that's how the world works. I come to these forums because I ENJOY disussion. I enjoy talking about politics and religion and sex and computers with people I've "known" for years. I find the discussions thought-provoking and educational. The REAL shame is that all you seem to be able to do it get angry about it and lock threads.
Also, I don't agree with the facist comment, but there is some merit to it if we're going to limit what people are and aren't allowed to say, just because a precious few may not like it.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[This message has been edited by Slade (edited 12-07-2002).]
They have said before that members shouldn't do things that cause other members to leave.
"Are there Moderate Muslims" is about the same as saying that the Christian Right represents all of Christianity. Frankly I'd be offended by that just as much!
If people want to leave because they feel they're being forced to read civil political discussion, that's fine, but why should I have to give up one of the primary reasons I enjoy coming here?
Maybe we should just make a couple more "bump" threads, or post a few more jokes. That should keep things lively!
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
Well, I believe this will be my last post on this topic.
I wasn't upset at first, but with the recent info coming through the com channels, I'm dissapointed. I'll leave you with these three things from my point of view.
1. I thought the thread was quite civil and doing well even considering who it was started by.
2. I wasn't too happy with the Bush bashing, but I was adult enough to stomach it for the most part since the thread stayed quite civil.
3. If this had occured in the Babylon 5 Forum, I would have expected this early on with not ONE complaint. But this is the Zocalo (v2), or so I thought it was anyway. I guess my last post in that thread proved my point quite well...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I tend to focus my energies on places where I am free to speak in civil discussions. I guess that tells you what I think about comming here often anymore now.
[b]-END TRANSMISSION:[/b]
I started that thread looking for confirmation that there WERE moderate Muslims. I've seen precious few moments when I have seen moderate Muslims, I know and I'd like to believe there ARE moderate Muslims.
And just so you know... I stopped following that thread along time ago...
people get so lost in the details...
sigh...
[b]It’s locked because the boards resident fascist decided to squash all political/religious debate/talk…
Such a shame[/b][/quote]
I Agree with you on that.
Any thing Political that Bad Mouths the U.S. Goverment in any way seems to Get Locked. And the Same goes to Religous posts as well.
It's been a great time guys, until now. I will try and lurk every once and a while to see if things improve, maybe then I'll feel like posting.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[b]I knew I shouldn't have posted in this thread. Now I am the only one defending the admins and they haven't shown up to help [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
You know where we are, RC. Well, two of us anyway. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]I've been coming to these forums since ITF was cancelled, and was a member of the Sierra forums before that. This is the first time I've seen people's personal freedom blatantly stolen in such a small, tight-knit community. I visit many forums, most of which allow civil political discussions in their "off-topic" areas. I can say that I will now, as Jack has, probably not drop by here anymore.
It's been a great time guys, until now. I will try and lurk every once and a while to see if things improve, maybe then I'll feel like posting.
[/b][/quote]
If 1 incident is what will make you leave after years of no problems, then I feel sorry for you.
[b] You know where we are, RC. Well, two of us anyway. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Yeah...telling me I'd be the bearer of all gripes [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
If you're looking for a punching bad, here I am! =)
I was the one who closed the muslim thread. Now, I did not close it because of my "personal opinion" of it. I had no idea what was even going on until someone told me about it.
My reasons for closing it are simple. The thread was starting to disrupt the functioning of the forums.
Now, as far as I know, political discussions and the like are fine here. However, one must be civil and intelligent about it. The thread got hijacked by a few individuals and the original purpose of the thread was lost.
I am not limiting anyone's freedom of speech. However, this is a privately own forum and it is moderated by caring people who want nothing more than to not use their admin powers.
Unfortunately, things like this happen on the internet all the time in forums every where. It is always ruined by a few individuals who can't stay civil. I guess that's a fact of life.
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I'd like to know what "the boards resident fascist" you are talking about. It's comments like this that don't serve any meaningful purpose and just incites anger.
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Slade, I am deeply sorry that you feel like that. We are not trying to "limit" anything here. However, the thread got sort of hijacked by a few people. Give the community another chance. We've always been great. =)
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
If you wish to re-start another discussion on this...by then all means do so! None of the administrators nor moderators want to close it down on purpose.
I hope everyone has a joyous and peaceful evening tonight. G'night!
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
I feel sorry for you. You will not listen to people who you don't agree with, and you feel that they need to be silenced, just so you can be more comfortable. That is truely, truely a travesty.
It is precisely this kind of behaviour which millions of people have died fighting. If you aren't free to speak your mind, you aren't free at all.
Striker: I fail to see the hijacking. The thread was in the process of discussing Islamic history, as well as similaties with other religions, which has a imediate bearing on the original topic. Even if the thread HAD deviated from the original topic, what's the big deal? People were not insulting each other or the subject matter, and discussion will on occasion change subjects. This is no reason for a lock.
Also, if your post "Hmmmm" was an attempt to warn people, I'm glad it was so clear.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[This message has been edited by Slade (edited 12-07-2002).]
- I argue with you over what you consider censorship. To say that this is censorship would have already resulted in your post saying we are censoring posts to be deleted, instead of debating your statement.
- I argue that closing a thread is not censorship. On a great many sites, a thread is closed when it gets off topic. As Striker said, that happened with the thread in question. Had it been censorship, it would have been deleted.
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
[b]Slade:
- I argue that closing a thread is not censorship. On a great many sites, a thread is closed when it gets off topic. As Striker said, that happened with the thread in question. Had it been censorship, it would have been deleted.[/b][/quote]
Then split the thread, or create a new one. Also, a post explaining why the lock occured might have avoided the thread we're in right now.
It doesn't help when people start saying we shouldn't be allowed to discuss politics anyways, simply because it makes them uncomfortable. If you don't like discussing politics, then don't go into the political threads, it's that simple. Just because you don't like it is not a reason to stop other people from talking; that is censorship.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[b] Then split the thread, or create a new one. Also, a post explaining why the lock occured might have avoided the thread we're in right now.
It doesn't help when people start saying we shouldn't be allowed to discuss politics anyways, simply because it makes them uncomfortable. If you don't like discussing politics, then don't go into the political threads, it's that simple. Just because you don't like it is not a reason to stop other people from talking; that is censorship.
[/b][/quote]
I apologize about that Slade. I ran out of time and I was going out the door. I was going to do all of that, but realized I was late for a meeting and had to leave. I'm going to go ahead and rectify this now.
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
[b] Then split the thread, or create a new one. Also, a post explaining why the lock occured might have avoided the thread we're in right now. [/b][/quote]
Splitting threads isn't exactly able to be done in a time effective manner on UBB.
Chase said (in IRC tonight) that he was heading out the door and didn't have a chance to post why. He would have otherwise.
[quote][b]
It doesn't help when people start saying we shouldn't be allowed to discuss politics anyways, simply because it makes them uncomfortable. If you don't like discussing politics, then don't go into the political threads, it's that simple. Just because you don't like it is not a reason to stop other people from talking; that is censorship.[/b][/quote]
No one has said said you can't discuss politics. The thread wasn't closed for political reasons. The thread was closed becuase it was off topic. How does quoting from the bible related to muslim culture and views?
Here's another thread to lock because it's off topic:
[url="http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/Forum16/HTML/002098.html"]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/Forum16/HTML/002098.html[/url]
Started off talking about Drazi Guy's horrific experience, now a debate on gun control and criminals. Off-topic.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[b]Also, read [url="http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/Forum16/HTML/002170.html"]this thread[/url] for other reasons why it was probably closed. These political threads are discourging members and causing some to even leave.
Many have gotten sick of them.
[/b][/quote]
Sure seems like you were suggesting and end to the politics in this post.
Quoting from the Bible is a comparison of "Western" religion and "Middle Eastern", which certainly sheds light on similarities and differences between the two, in an attempt to get people looking at both sides. This is completely relevant in my view. If you want topics to stay "on-topic" to that degree, the only ones that will are the "bump" threads.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[This message has been edited by Slade (edited 12-07-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Slade (edited 12-07-2002).]
Calm down! Remember, this is internet. No reason to "blow a gasket" over this.
The reason this particular thread got locked and not the one that DG started is that it's about religion (a touchy subject as always). What SB posted was answered, but then it got hijacked and got blown way out of proportion and it was discouraging a lot of members.
So, the best course was to close it and start a new one.
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
Also, try to remember that Firstones.com is an international community. Different people have different standards, different views. Try to respect them and don't post stuff that you know will offend others on purpose. As admins, we have to think of the forum as a whole. If things get bad in some way, we will close topics.
So remember, you don't have to read a thread. The choice is yours.
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[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]
The reason this particular thread got locked and not the one that DG started is that it's about religion (a touchy subject as always). What SB posted was answered, but then it got hijacked and got blown way out of proportion and it was discouraging a lot of members.
[/b][/quote]
So it WAS closed because of subject matter. This only proves my point more. If people don't want to read discussions like this, they are free to not read them. Why punish the people who want to have a discussion?
As I said before, discussions are the primary reason I visit online communities like this one. Religious and political ones are among the best, because people are so passionate about it. If discussion on these topics isn't going to be permitted, especially in the civil way in which the "muslim" thread was going, then I simply won't come here.
If it had simply been an off-topic issue I could have "let it go" and continued to visit, but you have confirmed it was closed because it was simply a topic which made *some* people uncomfortable. I find that terrible, and it puts a blatant restriction on the people who do want to participate in these debates. Go do it somewhere else? That would be a truly sad statement about the tolerance of the people here. Free speech indeed. Pah!
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
"Something is only impossible until it's not."