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Better late than never
I know, I know, no one has posted here in over a month, but I just found this message board so here goes.
I know that The Gathering was not a particularly good movie, but LOTR was just bad. I am usually fairly easy on pilot episodes, because they are just that, pilots. But there were some things here that could not be overlooked.
First off. The Ranger code, We live for the one, we die for the one. Yes thank you, I am aware of that, but do you have to repeat it every 10 minutes. I mean, I was a US Marine, but I didnt run around going Semper Fi at the end of every conversation.
Was it just me, or did the "Naming Ceromony" just seem like a cheap way to introduce everyone. Narn Rangers, I can understand, Human Rangers, ya obviously, but Drazi Rangers??? "Im Tirk, I carry heavy things" Hi Tirk, Im spirit, and this is my remote control "click".
Ahh the holographic weapon system... That was more gay than Siegfried & Roy at the Mr Universe contest. Not to mention, in-efficient. Seriously, how much power did that thing consume???? If the ship didnt have to power that huge targeting system, maybe the weapons themselves would not have been below 30%. Now, I know that JMS's original idea was this 3D rotating battle chair. But when funding for one thing isnt there, do the low cost alternative. A flat panel with her punching buttons would have been much better that what we got.
Flaws with that type of targeting system:
- Holy power hungry Batman
- I hope our gunner doesnt get tired of kickboxing
- I hope our enemy gives her enough time to run accross the comand deck and get in her tube
- is Karate, or Taekwando?
- sure would be funny if during a firefight, a bulkhead collapsed and trapped her in there
- if does get hurt, in order for the ship to keep firing, they have to pull her dead ass out of the tube, THEN someone else gets to jump into the small 5X5 cubical she just DIED in, so we can keep shooting.
and just how much time would it take to do that?
Dialog was horrible.
Is there some particular reason why G'Kar is just allowed to waltz on into the Ranger coucil. I mean, granted this is not the Grey council, but hello security.
G'car knows he is no god, why now is he acting like one??
Dont get me wrong, I love B5, but Crusade was way better than LOTR.
I know that The Gathering was not a particularly good movie, but LOTR was just bad. I am usually fairly easy on pilot episodes, because they are just that, pilots. But there were some things here that could not be overlooked.
First off. The Ranger code, We live for the one, we die for the one. Yes thank you, I am aware of that, but do you have to repeat it every 10 minutes. I mean, I was a US Marine, but I didnt run around going Semper Fi at the end of every conversation.
Was it just me, or did the "Naming Ceromony" just seem like a cheap way to introduce everyone. Narn Rangers, I can understand, Human Rangers, ya obviously, but Drazi Rangers??? "Im Tirk, I carry heavy things" Hi Tirk, Im spirit, and this is my remote control "click".
Ahh the holographic weapon system... That was more gay than Siegfried & Roy at the Mr Universe contest. Not to mention, in-efficient. Seriously, how much power did that thing consume???? If the ship didnt have to power that huge targeting system, maybe the weapons themselves would not have been below 30%. Now, I know that JMS's original idea was this 3D rotating battle chair. But when funding for one thing isnt there, do the low cost alternative. A flat panel with her punching buttons would have been much better that what we got.
Flaws with that type of targeting system:
- Holy power hungry Batman
- I hope our gunner doesnt get tired of kickboxing
- I hope our enemy gives her enough time to run accross the comand deck and get in her tube
- is Karate, or Taekwando?
- sure would be funny if during a firefight, a bulkhead collapsed and trapped her in there
- if does get hurt, in order for the ship to keep firing, they have to pull her dead ass out of the tube, THEN someone else gets to jump into the small 5X5 cubical she just DIED in, so we can keep shooting.
and just how much time would it take to do that?
Dialog was horrible.
Is there some particular reason why G'Kar is just allowed to waltz on into the Ranger coucil. I mean, granted this is not the Grey council, but hello security.
G'car knows he is no god, why now is he acting like one??
Dont get me wrong, I love B5, but Crusade was way better than LOTR.
Comments
One of the best posts made here!!
I agree with everthing, B5:Lotr sucked.
Although I'm still a bit annoyed by the incredible incompetence of the enemy, as well as the name.
My other "little" problem with the series was that we were introduced to an epic storyline way too early. B5 didn't just jump right in. Rather, it slowly set up the elements and had a smooth rise to the shadow war.
Marines weren't a mix of military and religious groups. Ever go to church? Count how many times people say "Amen".
[quote]Was it just me, or did the "Naming Ceromony" just seem like a cheap way to introduce everyone. Narn Rangers, I can understand, Human Rangers, ya obviously, but Drazi Rangers??? "Im Tirk, I carry heavy things" Hi Tirk, Im spirit, and this is my remote control "click".[/quote]
The Drazi are a member of the Aliance. My guess is that they raised hell until they were allowed to train as rangers.
[quote]Ahh the holographic weapon system... That was more gay than Siegfried & Roy at the Mr Universe contest. Not to mention, in-efficient. Seriously, how much power did that thing consume????[/quote]
Probably not much. Why would you assume it consumed a lot of power? After all, The Liandra probably had a fusion-based power system. Power for a holographic system wouldn't be that big of a deal.
[quote]If the ship didnt have to power that huge targeting system, maybe the weapons themselves would not have been below 30%. Now, I know that JMS's original idea was this 3D rotating battle chair. But when funding for one thing isnt there, do the low cost alternative. A flat panel with her punching buttons would have been much better that what we got.[/quote]
A flat panel would only give you a small view. This is space we're talking about. Threats come from all directions. There are two key advantages to a holographic weapons system:
1 - Reaction time. A human can punch with her fist faster than she can hunt for a button/control and press it.
2 - Spacial relationships - By projecting a full sphere viewpoint, it's much easier to gauge where your threats are in relation to each other.
[quote]Flaws with that type of targeting system:
- Holy power hungry Batman[/quote]
Where in the world are you getting this? Why do you keep thinking that this system takes a lot of power? In relation to the power that the ship can provide, it's probably not much at all.
This is a ship with artificial gravity, after all.
[quote]- I hope our gunner doesnt get tired of kickboxing[/quote]
Rangers train in hand to hand combat. That's their specialty. Endurance is most likely not a problem.
Notice how lots of video games are moving to similar control schemes (Dance Dance Revolution and even games that project an infra-red field around the player to track his movements). I [i]wonder[/i] why that is....
[quote]- I hope our enemy gives her enough time to run accross the comand deck and get in her tube[/quote]
SENSORS. They're usually used to detect threats before they come into range. Happens a lot.
[quote]- is Karate, or Taekwando?[/quote]
I have no idea what youre asking here.
[quote]- sure would be funny if during a firefight, a bulkhead collapsed and trapped her in there[/quote]
Same thing could happen on the bridge, too.
[quote]- if does get hurt, in order for the ship to keep firing, they have to pull her dead ass out of the tube, THEN someone else gets to jump into the small 5X5 cubical she just DIED in, so we can keep shooting.
and just how much time would it take to do that?[/quote]
No, the ship has back-up firing systems.
[quote]Dialog was horrible.[/quote]
Take a look at The Gathering.
[quote]Is there some particular reason why G'Kar is just allowed to waltz on into the Ranger coucil. I mean, granted this is not the Grey council, but hello security.[/quote]
Well, let's see...he's an embassador, a friend to Sheridan and Delenn, and a religious figure to the Narn. I think they could probably cut him a little slack.
Besides, where does it say that you can't walk into a Ranger ceremony? Find the rulebook.
[quote]G'car knows he is no god, why now is he acting like one??[/quote]
He's not acting like a god.
[quote]Dont get me wrong, I love B5, but Crusade was way better than LOTR. [/quote]
You saw 13 hours of Crusade. LotR wasn't given a chance.
GIVE ME A COPY!!!!!! I WANT TO SEE LTOR!!!!!!
(Aint in the UK YET!!! ARG!!!)
Ever go to church? Count how many times people say "Amen".
[/quote]
dont even get me started on those cults.
[quote]
The Drazi are a member of the Aliance. My guess is that they raised hell until they were allowed to train as rangers.
[/quote]
In real life yes, Im sure they would. But seriously, where were they going with that character??? At least you could tell in the B5 pilot, all the main characters had a reason for being there.
[quote]
Probably not much. Why would you assume it consumed a lot of power? After all, The Liandra probably had a fusion-based power system. Power for a holographic system wouldn't be that big of a deal.
[/quote]
you missed this part:
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
That was more gay than Siegfried & Roy at the Mr Universe contest[/quote]
I deem it gay, and needeth of a lot of power.
[quote]
A flat panel would only give you a small view. This is space we're talking about. Threats come from all directions. [/quote]
I have seen 3D holographic interfaces in computer games that do a damn good job. for example, I dont have to look over my shoulder on a flat panel.
[quote]
1 - Reaction time. A human can punch with her fist faster than she can hunt for a button/control and press it.[/quote]
I dont know about that. A well trained weapons officer doesnt have to 'hunt' for a button.
[quote]
2 - Spacial relationships - By projecting a full sphere viewpoint, it's much easier to gauge where your threats are in relation to each other.[/quote]
Ok, you can have that one.
[quote]
Rangers train in hand to hand combat. That's their specialty. Endurance is most likely not a problem.
[/quote]
I was a US Marine. I dont care HOW well trained you are, at some point Endurance becomes a problem. It takes a lot less phisical energy to push a button than it does to do a bunch of combat moves. Granted both are mentally draining, but were talking about going balls out punching, kicking, moving around. Im sorry, its not an effecient design.
[quote]
Notice how lots of video games are moving to similar control schemes (Dance Dance Revolution and even games that project an infra-red field around the player to track his movements). I wonder why that is....[/quote]
Because little kids like it. When was the last time you saw an interface like this for a real game beyond dance revalution??? I saw a similiar one in an arcade, some boxing thing, but seriously REAL gamers (and I am one) would NEVER own anything like that.
[quote]
SENSORS. They're usually used to detect threats before they come into range. Happens a lot.
[/quote]
The Valen still got its ass handed to it when it GOT CAUGHT OFF GUARD. Im guessing the tactical officer was taking a pee and didnt check the sensors when coming out of hyperspace. Its not the ships you know are coming for you, its the ones you dont know about that screw you.
[quote]
I have no idea what youre asking here.
[/quote]
I was jokingly asking what type of hand to hand combat you were supposed to know in order for the system to work.
[quote]
Same thing could happen on the bridge, too.
[/quote]
ahh, but the bridge is an OPEN area where others could attend to her a little better.
[quote]
No, the ship has back-up firing systems.
[/quote]
and you know that because....
[quote]
Besides, where does it say that you can't walk into a Ranger ceremony? Find the rulebook.
[/quote]
This is the Mimbari we are talking about here. and this is a council that looks and acts very much like the grey council did. On top of that, they are the council that oversees the Ranger fleet for the entire alliance. I dont care WHO you are, you dont just waltz in like you own the place. I would think even President Sheridan would have to let someone know he wanted to adress the council.
[quote]
He's not acting like a god.[/quote]
Ok, why was he acting so damned cocky. Is that a better way to describe it.
[quote]
You saw 13 hours of Crusade. LotR wasn't given a chance.[/quote]
the pilot for crusade was fairly decent. the movie prior to the pilot was set up very well. LotR wasnt. It felt like it was kind of forced upon us by the sci-fi channel.
Also can I just point out one or 2 minor details with SpititOne's latest bunck of slagging about LOTR?
No? Well tough!
1) I am a Christian. I sometimes go to Church. Saying Amen is part of the religon, and I doubt Christianity is a cult. By the defination of a Cult it isn't a cult. Now the KKK say - they are a cult! Weardo's make a cult.
Personally I find it deeply offensive that you are calling my religion a cult. That insuniates it could be evil. It aint!
2) We say a Drazi ranger in Season 5 of B5 I think. After membership of the rangers was opened to ALL member races of the Alliance. For Heaven's sake - A Pak'Ma'Ra became a Ranger. If that is so then a Drazi or 2 as Rangers..... not a prob! (Cannon! Watch S5!)
3) Power for holo systems.. They are on the Sharlin's and Whitestars. By this time don't you think that the Minbari would have got the power consumption level's down quite a bit? After all a few hundread years of playing with the tech would improve it to low power & good results. It happens with our current tech why can't it happen in scifi?
4) You can't judge computer games to reality. Ever played Warbirds? It's a WW2 flight sim (online). You have the look over shoulder function with a joystick hat to give rear, side up views etc. It is what is natural to us. In combat this is best because it means you require less training and the reflex's are already there.
5) You would be surprised to hear that a well trained weps officer does have to hunt for a button from time to time. You say you are an ex-marine? How many times have you become frustrated with something in combat? Pretty dam often. Your training takes over and you calm down. Infront of a keyboard/pad and frustrated you sometimes can't find buttons. Like Fire buttons in combat sims. You die.
The simpler any system is the better it works. If punching works better than a button then it is the prefered system.
6) Marines are not known for endurance in my experiance. Admitadly you are some of the best supplied troops in the world though.
I'm a Brit. Now the SAS are THE BEST trained fighting unit in the world. Don't cair what you say. It's true. Also the first commando group in the world. Endurace is not a problem for a well trained SAS soldier. Combat in B5 lasts for what? 1-2 hours tops! By that time you are either dead, out of bad guys to kill or out of ammo.
A good soldier can push him (or her) self for that long. I can! All it takes it training.
7) Buy what you want for your kids! That game is crap but the interface is a good one. No such thing exists in the military world so it can't be judged in the context.
Build it, then judge it!
8) Large starship stuff in B5 dosn't work for a few seconds after jumping out of hyperspace. We know this from B5 season 2 when the Narn are getting pummled by the Shadows. They send an expedition to Z'Ha'dum and it's systems dodn't work for a few secs and they got pummled! Seams logical to think that this would happen to other species ships since it was caused by the energy drain of jumping.
9) The bridge of a vessel also tends to get alot of damage during combat. It's what you shoot at to confuse the crew. Pretty dam good trick! She would be dead if she were on the bridge. Open space is no good + you need more power for the holo system. Closed area offer's better protection!
10) EVERY ship has backup systems! Plain and simple logic! Look at today's warships. They have backup systems. All warships do. It's inherent with the design.
11) G'Kar is a member of the Council for the Alliance. I think the council members, Entil'Zha and President of the Alliance would be alouded to walk in. If it were important (As I beleve it was) I think you would be alouwed to walk right in.
12) G'Kar is a member of the council + a religous figure!
13) I ain't seen LOTR. Then I'll judge it. Sides LOTR wasn't forced upon you. After all they didn't tie you to a chair and tape your eyes open and force you to watch it did they? You didn't have to watch it.
Now would somebody PLEASE lend me a copy of LOTR? Or burn me a copy of the DVD (R2)!
PLEASE!!!!! I WANT TO WATCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!
[b]
Ahh the holographic weapon system... [...] in-efficient. [/b][/quote]
No offense, but obviously you don't have any idea of what you talking about.
Have you ever head of the CAVE Virtual Reality system?
The fist was built 1992 by the University of Illinois in Chicago. Today a couple of them exist, moste at universities and Technology museums. Many are open to the public. If you have one neaer you, I suggest you visit it. I did a few years ago.
Basically it's 10x10x10 foot room where every wall, the foor and the cieling are display-screen. It projects a 3-diensional world around you, that looks so real that I nerly fell down when I stood at the edge of virtual cliff. It even tricks the humans sense of balance.
For more info see [url="http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/CAVE/oldCAVE/CAVE.html"]http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/CAVE/oldCAVE/CAVE.html[/url]
Anyway, besides exporing a few interactive environments I also played a game of Quake II in this thing. Aiming by just pointing your finger at the target is much more efficient than a mouse, joystick, keyboard, etc.. It's easier, faster and more precise.
I can't realy explain it with words. Seriously, do yourself the favour and visit a CAVE youself.
This is the moste efficient system of Human-computer Interaction.
The US Military has also realized it's potential. They are experimenting with a similar system as gunnery station for ships. Sure, it will be 10-15 years until it will go to production, but we are heading this way.
JMS did a geat job with a very efficient and realistic system.
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]Seriously, how much power did that thing consume???? If the ship didnt have to power that huge targeting system, maybe the weapons themselves would not have been below 30%. [/b][/quote]
It's just a simple holo-projector. The Minbari have them everywhere. I don't think it consumes a signifficant amout of energy. After all the ship has enough energy for artifficial gravity...
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]- I hope our gunner doesnt get tired of kickboxing[/b][/quote]
As samuelk and Eternity already sayed, that shoudn't be a problem for a Ranger, considering their physical training.
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]
- I hope our enemy gives her enough time to run accross the comand deck and get in her tube[/b][/quote]
It didn't take her very long. Powering up the weapons probably takes longer, so no time is lost here.
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]
- is Karate, or Taekwando?[/b][/quote]
Probably a Minbary martial art style. What does it matter anyway?
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]
- sure would be funny if during a firefight, a bulkhead collapsed and trapped her in there[/b][/quote]
The bridge of a whitestar isn't the safes place either. Ivannova leraned this the hard way.
So, what's your point?
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]
- if does get hurt, in order for the ship to keep firing, they have to pull her dead ass out of the tube, THEN someone else gets to jump into the small 5X5 cubical she just DIED in, so we can keep shooting.
[/b][/quote]
They surely have a backup-system.
[quote]Originally posted by SpiritOne:
[b]
Dont get me wrong, I love B5, but Crusade was way better than LOTR. [/b][/quote]
Crusade had lots of potential, just like LOTR, but in both cases we haven't seen nearly enough to judge it.
What did you know about B5 after just seeing the pilot?
What did you know after 13 episodes?
Why do you think you can judge LOTR (or Crusade) afer seeing so littel of it?
All I can say is both had potential.