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Score 1 for the good guys/common sense!

ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
in Zocalo v2.0
The judge in the[URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4545822.stm]Dover[/URL] school ID case has ruled that:
[QUOTE]the school board had violated the constitutional ban on teaching religion in public schools. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Judge Jones said he had determined that ID was not science and "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents". [/QUOTE]

It's good to know there are at least a few people out there who have their heads screwed on right! Score 1 for science!

Comments

  • FreejackFreejack Jake the Not-so-Wise
    Good, maybe we can move beyond this and focus on some of the real educational shortcomings in the US.

    Jake
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Freejack [/i]
    [B]Good, maybe we can move beyond this and focus on some of the real educational shortcomings in the US.

    Jake [/B][/QUOTE]

    Yeah... Like the lack of requiring a semester of Ancient Beer Brewing...

    ;)

    :D
  • JohnDJohnD Ranger
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Freejack [/i]
    [B]Good, maybe we can move beyond this and focus on some of the real educational shortcomings in the US.

    Jake [/B][/QUOTE]

    Such as the frightening trend towards politically correct grading? (i.e. "Johnny or Sue put forth an effort, so they pass!" rather than grading based on the students demonstrating a functional understanding of the course material). We're in trouble. Serious trouble.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    I hate to say it, but the USA doesn't have a monopoly on that concept. NZ is experimenting with the idea too. Apparently it's bad for a kid's self esteem to tell them they failed calculus. Never mind that maybe they just arn't cut out for that part of mankind's knowledge (naturally, telling a kid that they should go and be a plumber because they're not analytical enough for science is also a big no-no, even though plumbers actually make more money). Fortunately, while the NZQA is having its stupidity spasm at the behest of the government and parents of should-be-plumbers who want them to be nobel prize winners and world-leading businessmen, most of the schools are staying sensible and as well as teaching the NCEA, teaching it via the Cambridge Exam curriculum, then allowing their students to sit said exams, which are recognised world-wide and very well regarded.
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JohnD [/i]
    [B]Such as the frightening trend towards politically correct grading? (i.e. "Johnny or Sue put forth an effort, so they pass!" rather than grading based on the students demonstrating a functional understanding of the course material). We're in trouble. Serious trouble. [/B][/QUOTE]

    Do you think that is where the Foot vs. Meter incident started in NASA maybe?

    :D
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
    [B]I hate to say it, but the USA doesn't have a monopoly on that concept. NZ is experimenting with the idea too. Apparently it's bad for a kid's self esteem to tell them they failed calculus. Never mind that maybe they just arn't cut out for that part of mankind's knowledge...[/B][/QUOTE]

    Do you think maybe that is how the old great civilizations self destruct?

    ;)

    :D
  • Mr_BesterMr_Bester Earthforce Officer St Louis MO
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JohnD [/i]
    [B]Such as the frightening trend towards politically correct grading? (i.e. "Johnny or Sue put forth an effort, so they pass!" rather than grading based on the students demonstrating a functional understanding of the course material). We're in trouble. Serious trouble. [/B][/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, (not to get political) that came in with "No Child Left Behind". Which means literally, no child can be left behind, hence no child can fail.

    I forsee the national science and math scores skyrocketing because little Johnny couldn't understand something in third grade and it compounded through 12th.:rolleyes:
    Dug
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Don't worry, I will be a hard graders. Meeting standards will get a student a C, not an A as it is with many of my clases (even ones I have in uni)
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    That's excellent. I love it when I have fair grades coming from a professor/teacher. One of the worst things that I feel can happen to a student is to be graded unfairly/given overly easy material. Once they hit the real challenging areas or a teacher who isn't as "forgiving" as the others, suddenly they've found that they're failures, and what happens then? The honest folks get the blame. "He's a hard grader/he's impossible/blahblahblah"

    My favorite all-time professors grade damned honestly and fairly. Doing nothing but the requirements gets you a C. Extra effort gets the student a B, and going above and beyond the requirements by a large margin gets them an A. It's truly rewarding.
  • ArethusaArethusa Universal Cathode
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JohnD [/i]
    [B]Such as the frightening trend towards politically correct grading? (i.e. "Johnny or Sue put forth an effort, so they pass!" rather than grading based on the students demonstrating a functional understanding of the course material). We're in trouble. Serious trouble. [/B][/QUOTE]
    No, [url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400052440/qid=1135205607/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9538791-6380140?n=507846&s=books&v=glance]how about focusing on some real problems[/url].

    [url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060974990/qid=1135205613/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9538791-6380140?n=507846&s=books&v=glance]You know, problems that actually matter[/url].
  • DarthCaligulaDarthCaligula Elite Ranger
    Yeah, the important stuff! Like soda machines!
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Or dress codes where students can't wear hats.


    But yes those books are desturbing. My counter book for those is Made in America. I didn't read all of it, but it was quite insightful.

    My oceanography prof actually did a real graded curve, except off of a B average. Everyone that was within one standard deviation from the mean receaved a B, so one would have to really suck to get a C,D,F or do really well to get an A.

    What are your thoughts on adjusted grades (reducing total points possible to, for example, the highest score) and/or grading on a curve?
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    A curve is, imho, pointless. It implies that there are a finite number of grades to be handed out for each "level" (A-F), and what happens if a grader sticks too close to the curve/stays too literal, the curve is realized and the students are graded relative one another, with some students awarded grades above what they deserve, and some below.

    On the topic of teaching...one of my recent courses had a genuinely interesting concept presented within it: A "collective" education system in which the maximum achievable grade is that which is actually the lowest student in the class. The concept suggests that in an environment where success *demands* cooperation between students, those who are doing poorly will seek those who are doing well, and vice versa. The better-off students, those who clearly understand the material, have the most to gain by helping those who have little to no understanding. If the class slacks off, then the entire class' grades slide. Everyone is punished, whether for action against the system or inaction (through not supporting it).

    I like it. Something I considered doing was working with the professor of this course to hold a few classes at my school using this theory as the basis, and observing how students handle the coursework. Would there be social collapse? Would everyone slack off? Hell, would everyone come out better? At the very least, it'd achieve my goals of being an evil bastard for a day.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    I really like that idea. In my mind I think it would be most useful from middle high school level on up as this is when students are usually given the most freedom to help eachother out side of class.
  • bobobobo (A monkey)
    I disagree. This becomes a rule by the minority, namely the person(s) with no interest in participating making the rest of the class carry them along, or suffer a consequence he cares nothing about.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Book in Febuary: [url]http://www.venganza.org/[/url]
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    Grading a student based upon another student is cruel.

    Incentives to help out other students fine, but to chain them to a lesser grade no matter how well they perform etc. is blatantly wrong.

    My personal opinion for what it is worth.

    ;)
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    What if it was done for advanced classes, where it would be safer to assume everyone is there to learn.
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