Well holy fucking frakking shit, now that was worthy of a finale. Spoiler: I watched it with some friends and as soon as a saw lee chasing a particular ship I started screaming like a madman he's chasing Starbuck, I'll bet both my nuts thats Starbuck! As soon as I started adding up the numbers it all made sense. There are five missing cylons, four sleepers hearing the music and Starbuck is the fifth. The definition of a cylon just took a completely new twist. Lets see were this goes, only 9+ months to go.
WOW! Spoiler: Well, first things first, Baltar's acquittal did not come as a surprise . What [i[was[/i] a surprise was Bill Adama's decision. I liked the twist, and it was completely believable. Most of the main people in the fleet had been given a break at least once and Bill Adama's realization of that was very appropriate.
Now, on to the meatier half of the episode. I have to say it again: WOW. I liked how all of that was crammed into the last quarter of the episode and yet it didn't feel rushed. And whoever guessed "All Along the Watchtower" I must bow to your keen sense of hearing. Well done! :)
Anyway, it is clear from the song that BSG takes place in at least the present, if not the future. The song was released in 1967 so that means that the fleet is at least 40 light years from earth but likely more (the song could have been traveling for some time before they heard it). It will be interesting to see why only the four of the last Cylons could hear it. Moreover, I don't think Baltar could hear it so I really don't think he's a Cylon.
Best episode ever. Literally. I am not prone to exaggeration. I'm glad they gave me something I could be happy with for the next ten months. If they tried something like the season one cliffhanger with that kind of break, I'd have spit tacks.
[QUOTE=Space Ghost;158300] Spoiler: And whoever guessed "All Along the Watchtower" I must bow to your keen sense of hearing. Well done! :)
[/QUOTE]
Sense of hearing, hell. I was spoiled. In fact, [url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm]from the composer's blog entry on the song (very interesting, and VERY SPOILERY FOR THIS EPISODE)[/url], the part that was used in Part I was totally original. The only people who could tell what it was before Part II were spoiled, plain and simple. (But it was incredibly fun playing "Spot the lyric" for the first half of the episode).
[QUOTE=Rick;158238] Spoiler: Well, I'm pretty close to laying money on Tigh and Anders being in the final 5... Tyrol and the president's aid not being far behind them...and along with that goes my bets on Starbuck returning. [/QUOTE]
You really should gamble more often. From the first appearances in the show, I correctly anticipated only the two female characters to be cylons.
[QUOTE=rcmodels;158321] Spoiler: So.. do we think starbuck died and was resurrected on earth or something?[/QUOTE]
I don't know about you but that's what I've been thinking for awhile.
Frack me that was excellent! After so many dodgey episodes this season RDM pulls it out of his ass right at the last moment :D Indeed a worthy end to the season.
[Spoiler]Ok so if those 4 plus Starbuck are the original 5 then where does the president fit in with her visions? Obviously there's a deep connection between 6, Boomer, her and the baby. Are they its guardians ensuring its brought to Earth to mark the beginning of a new future? And this sheds doubt on Lee Oben being one of the 5. So was he just a messenger trying to make Starbuck remember who she really was? Given the ages of Anders, the presidents aide and Tigh, I wonder if they were "planted" at specific stages. Also begs the question do human Cylons ages?[/Spoiler]
[Spoiler] Ok I have a big question about all of this. Tighe fought in the first war, right? Meaning he has records from then, comrades, etc. Meaning that someone would remember him. You can't just plant a guy in the middle of the military and assume no one won't realize he's got a fake record or something. And what is the deal with starbuck, she had a mother and stuff. So unless she was adopted or something and placed by the cylons... how does she end up being one? And as for Tighe, if he was a cylon all along during the first war.. wasnt that right after they gained sentience? so when would the cylons have time to advance their technology in that amount of time and construct them? I mean, I can see tyrol/anders/tory being cylons, but starbuck and tighe have too much history that we already know to have that written in to their characters. Also, do you think Billy was originally supposed to be one and not tory before he was written out? She kind of came out of left field...
I don't think Roslin is one of the final 5 anymore. She might be the dying leader entrusted by them to bring them to earth, especially now that the cancer has returned and they are right next door. One thing seems for sure, Starbuck was ressurected somehow, in other words I think she is the final one. Notice how her viper was perfectly clean and brand new looking, certainly not the one that blew up and nothing you'd find on the fleet. Its like the modernized version of having them wear the all white clothes.
Spoiler: I don't think Starbuck is the last one. That'd be too easy. They need to keep one final rabbit in their hat. Whoever it is, though, they weren't on Galactica, or else they would've gone to the gym. Roslin's probably Cylon-enough to tap into their freaky visions thanks to her cylon blood and chamalla use.
[QUOTE=rcmodels;158327][Spoiler]Tighe fought in the first war, right? Meaning he has records from then, comrades, etc. Meaning that someone would remember him. You can't just plant a guy in the middle of the military and assume no one won't realize he's got a fake record or something. [/QUOTE]
Spoiler: Well, either Tigh was a cylon from birth/youth, and the human Cylons actually somehow predate the mechanical ones, or he was created and deployed some time between the end of the war and his meeting Adama. Since he was supposedly discharged, its possible that the Cylons constructed his false life so that everyone he supposedly served with was dead or retired (like how Boomer came from a mining colony that just [i]happened[/i] to explode right after she left to join the military). Plus, he was way out of the service when Adama met him, and had no interest in getting back in. It's possible that when Adama reactivated Tigh's commission, years later, his career got a virtual reset, with new contacts and references (foremost among them, Adama himself. Depending on how close they stayed, it's possible that after Tigh returned to the Fleet, he was never not under the command of Bill Adama, who'd iron out any kinks and cut through any red tape for his friend).
Oh, and I don't think they'd quite hit on the idea of who the final Cylons would be before Billy was killed off. Maybe he's the last one.
[QUOTE=rcmodels;158327][Spoiler] Ok I have a big question about all of this. Tighe fought in the first war, right? Meaning he has records from then, comrades, etc. Meaning that someone would remember him. You can't just plant a guy in the middle of the military and assume no one won't realize he's got a fake record or something. And what is the deal with starbuck, she had a mother and stuff. So unless she was adopted or something and placed by the cylons... how does she end up being one? And as for Tighe, if he was a cylon all along during the first war.. wasnt that right after they gained sentience? so when would the cylons have time to advance their technology in that amount of time and construct them? I mean, I can see tyrol/anders/tory being cylons, but starbuck and tighe have too much history that we already know to have that written in to their characters. Also, do you think Billy was originally supposed to be one and not tory before he was written out? She kind of came out of left field... [/QUOTE]
Spoiler: Thats one of the things that has me stumped. I think what a cylon is has been redefined. It kind of starts to make sense what has been said from the begining, cylons are gods new children, whatever/whoever god is in this case. Cylons have obviously been around since before they were invented by humans. Whatever humans created were not quite really the creation of a new life, it was chosen by these 5 in some way. The other 7 probably went all wrong as its clear there is a completely different plan with the original 5 being completely couterpoint to what the later 7 want. There is a cylon plan, it just has nothing to do with the plan of the previously known 7.
I find it interesting that all of the resistance leaders, Anders, Tigh, and Tyrol all turned out to be cylons. Its as if they were put there to ensure they got the hell off that rock called New Caprica.
[Spoiler]Well the "children" of the Cylon gods obviously got the message wrong and went down the incorrect path. So yeah I suppose the Final 5 have been making subtle attempts to try and steer them back onto the path. Thinking about it Saul would have been very young when the company that "created" the cylons was around. I we think about the spin off series being about Adama's father taking on the company trying to create an AI, Saul would have been a kid I assume. So he could have been planted/replaced quite young.[/Spoiler]
I'm sure Billy is in fact the key and when he comes back he's going to show them all his neat little trick of making coke bottles explode :D
Umm, this is not a flamebait, but I think I'm done with BSG. Seriously speaking, I'd may give the episode 6/10, but as a part of the whole story, 0.5/10.
rant including extreme spoilers and mufflers:
Season 3 was a piece of cylon Spoiler: carp, and this last episode made the whole season futile, waste of time.
There is still something that I dont quite get it, in Pilot, why wasnt Tyrol affected with the radiation as the one cylon did... I doubt they are what they think they are, because in S4 finale they found themself to be from planet of the apes.
I see where your coming from Sinclair. It does make me wonder what they were thinking about for the rest of the season. Maybe RDM and Eick got confused and thought they were "cylons" and started projecting episodes with quality writing and non-screwed up timelines :D Seriously though I hope S4 is not as up and down as S3 has been.
Just got to wait for Bear to bash out the S3 soundtrack, can't wait!
[QUOTE=Vorlons in my Head;158331] Spoiler: Thats one of the things that has me stumped. I think what a cylon is has been redefined. It kind of starts to make sense what has been said from the begining, cylons are gods new children, whatever/whoever god is in this case. Cylons have obviously been around since before they were invented by humans. Whatever humans created were not quite really the creation of a new life, it was chosen by these 5 in some way. The other 7 probably went all wrong as its clear there is a completely different plan with the original 5 being completely couterpoint to what the later 7 want. There is a cylon plan, it just has nothing to do with the plan of the previously known 7.[/QUOTE]
Spoiler: But what if the humans of the twelve colonies were originally created by the final five cylon models on Kobol? That would certainly close the cycle, wouldn't it?
Spoiler: Roslin reacted to the power outage, so I was and still am suspicious of her. Though perhaps it's just the cylon blood in her.
In the pilot, the Tigh and Tyrol probably weren't exposed to the radiation long enough for it to affect them. The impression I had is that it took days.
A thought that has just occured to me, what if, after the first war the Cylons retreated off into space and encountered a (possibly damaged) ship from Earth? They could have taken those people and done something with them, maybe they're the final 5 (or in this case, the first 5) and so the other 7 were created. Or something a long those lines.
Remember, Tyrol and Anders said they recognised the song from long ago and compared it to a childhood memory. Just a thought.
[QUOTE=Eclecticonaut;158342] Spoiler: But what if the humans of the twelve colonies were originally created by the final five cylon models on Kobol? That would certainly close the cycle, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Eclecticonaut;158342] Spoiler: But what if the humans of the twelve colonies were originally created by the final five cylon models on Kobol? That would certainly close the cycle, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]
In the mini Galactica would have shielded the cylons from the radiation. Had Doral left Galactica for and extended period he would have been toast. Nevertheless the radiation issue kinda went out the window several times when cylons were actually more resistant to radiation such as in that awful episode The Passage. Anyway, whatever these new 5 are, they are a different breed which has nothing to do with the genetic pool of the evil 7. All of them would have failed Baltars detector early on. Whatever the case, these people were never intended to be cylons in the first place. Tory is there because the actor who played billy left. Anders is there because Sackhoff insisted on bringing him back. The chief is there because his role became popular after what was supposed to be a minor, possibly not even recurring character.
[QUOTE=sinclair;158338]Umm, this is not a flamebait, but I think I'm done with BSG. Seriously speaking, I'd may give the episode 6/10, but as a part of the whole story, 0.5/10.
rant including extreme spoilers and mufflers:
Season 3 was a piece of cylon Spoiler: carp, and this last episode made the whole season futile, waste of time.
There is still something that I dont quite get it, in Pilot, why wasnt Tyrol affected with the radiation as the one cylon did... I doubt they are what they think they are, because in S4 finale they found themself to be from planet of the apes.[/QUOTE]
I hear what you're saying and I understand, but as I said long ago, I stopped wishing for BSG to be what I wanted it to be and just lived with it. The original core story pretty much became unsalvagable about midway through this season and it pulled the rug from right under a lot of the best concepts of the early series but I can still hope they write good episodes within the scope of what they are trying to do now. Just before and after the triple streak of weaksauce fillers they at least managed to start pulling things together to the intensity that made it great. There's no turning back anymore. This season went accross the entire sectrum from the very worst so far to totally mediocre to some of the best. I don't think anything will ever top the Pegasus/RS episode which in IMO are iconic of what BSG was really all about. This whole destiny story can work alright but I can't shake the feeling that its something that belongs in a show like Babylon 5, not BSG.
Comments
[url]http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?t=10179&page=6[/url]
Now, on to the meatier half of the episode. I have to say it again: WOW. I liked how all of that was crammed into the last quarter of the episode and yet it didn't feel rushed. And whoever guessed "All Along the Watchtower" I must bow to your keen sense of hearing. Well done! :)
Anyway, it is clear from the song that BSG takes place in at least the present, if not the future. The song was released in 1967 so that means that the fleet is at least 40 light years from earth but likely more (the song could have been traveling for some time before they heard it). It will be interesting to see why only the four of the last Cylons could hear it. Moreover, I don't think Baltar could hear it so I really don't think he's a Cylon.
Wow. :D
BTW, where is Arethusa ?
Anyone heard from his negative ass lately?
As usual, RDM doesn't dissapoint, and has me FRACKING SCREAMING AT MY TV " NINE MONTHS??!?! WHAT THE FRACK???? "
LOL ;)
-R.
[QUOTE=Space Ghost;158300] Spoiler: And whoever guessed "All Along the Watchtower" I must bow to your keen sense of hearing. Well done! :)
[/QUOTE]
Sense of hearing, hell. I was spoiled. In fact, [url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm]from the composer's blog entry on the song (very interesting, and VERY SPOILERY FOR THIS EPISODE)[/url], the part that was used in Part I was totally original. The only people who could tell what it was before Part II were spoiled, plain and simple. (But it was incredibly fun playing "Spot the lyric" for the first half of the episode).
You really should gamble more often. From the first appearances in the show, I correctly anticipated only the two female characters to be cylons.
I don't know about you but that's what I've been thinking for awhile.
[Spoiler]Ok so if those 4 plus Starbuck are the original 5 then where does the president fit in with her visions? Obviously there's a deep connection between 6, Boomer, her and the baby. Are they its guardians ensuring its brought to Earth to mark the beginning of a new future? And this sheds doubt on Lee Oben being one of the 5. So was he just a messenger trying to make Starbuck remember who she really was? Given the ages of Anders, the presidents aide and Tigh, I wonder if they were "planted" at specific stages. Also begs the question do human Cylons ages?[/Spoiler]
[QUOTE=rcmodels;158327][Spoiler]Tighe fought in the first war, right? Meaning he has records from then, comrades, etc. Meaning that someone would remember him. You can't just plant a guy in the middle of the military and assume no one won't realize he's got a fake record or something. [/QUOTE]
Spoiler: Well, either Tigh was a cylon from birth/youth, and the human Cylons actually somehow predate the mechanical ones, or he was created and deployed some time between the end of the war and his meeting Adama. Since he was supposedly discharged, its possible that the Cylons constructed his false life so that everyone he supposedly served with was dead or retired (like how Boomer came from a mining colony that just [i]happened[/i] to explode right after she left to join the military). Plus, he was way out of the service when Adama met him, and had no interest in getting back in. It's possible that when Adama reactivated Tigh's commission, years later, his career got a virtual reset, with new contacts and references (foremost among them, Adama himself. Depending on how close they stayed, it's possible that after Tigh returned to the Fleet, he was never not under the command of Bill Adama, who'd iron out any kinks and cut through any red tape for his friend).
Oh, and I don't think they'd quite hit on the idea of who the final Cylons would be before Billy was killed off. Maybe he's the last one.
:D
Spoiler: Thats one of the things that has me stumped. I think what a cylon is has been redefined. It kind of starts to make sense what has been said from the begining, cylons are gods new children, whatever/whoever god is in this case. Cylons have obviously been around since before they were invented by humans. Whatever humans created were not quite really the creation of a new life, it was chosen by these 5 in some way. The other 7 probably went all wrong as its clear there is a completely different plan with the original 5 being completely couterpoint to what the later 7 want. There is a cylon plan, it just has nothing to do with the plan of the previously known 7.
I find it interesting that all of the resistance leaders, Anders, Tigh, and Tyrol all turned out to be cylons. Its as if they were put there to ensure they got the hell off that rock called New Caprica.
I'm sure Billy is in fact the key and when he comes back he's going to show them all his neat little trick of making coke bottles explode :D
rant including extreme spoilers and mufflers:
Season 3 was a piece of cylon Spoiler: carp, and this last episode made the whole season futile, waste of time.
There is still something that I dont quite get it, in Pilot, why wasnt Tyrol affected with the radiation as the one cylon did... I doubt they are what they think they are, because in S4 finale they found themself to be from planet of the apes.
Just got to wait for Bear to bash out the S3 soundtrack, can't wait!
Spoiler: But what if the humans of the twelve colonies were originally created by the final five cylon models on Kobol? That would certainly close the cycle, wouldn't it?
In the pilot, the Tigh and Tyrol probably weren't exposed to the radiation long enough for it to affect them. The impression I had is that it took days.
A thought that has just occured to me, what if, after the first war the Cylons retreated off into space and encountered a (possibly damaged) ship from Earth? They could have taken those people and done something with them, maybe they're the final 5 (or in this case, the first 5) and so the other 7 were created. Or something a long those lines.
Remember, Tyrol and Anders said they recognised the song from long ago and compared it to a childhood memory. Just a thought.
(spoiler inside)
Spoiler: 12 colonies, 12 cylons (7 + 5). Any connection there?
And what about Earth as a 13th colony? 13 cylons as well?
Just pondering. :)
- PJH
Spoiler: 12 colonies, 12 cylons (7 + 5). Any connection there?
And what about Earth as a 13th colony? 13 cylons as well?
Just pondering. :)
It won't continue until next year? WTF??? Frak!
- PJH
rant including extreme spoilers and mufflers:
Season 3 was a piece of cylon Spoiler: carp, and this last episode made the whole season futile, waste of time.
There is still something that I dont quite get it, in Pilot, why wasnt Tyrol affected with the radiation as the one cylon did... I doubt they are what they think they are, because in S4 finale they found themself to be from planet of the apes.[/QUOTE]
I hear what you're saying and I understand, but as I said long ago, I stopped wishing for BSG to be what I wanted it to be and just lived with it. The original core story pretty much became unsalvagable about midway through this season and it pulled the rug from right under a lot of the best concepts of the early series but I can still hope they write good episodes within the scope of what they are trying to do now. Just before and after the triple streak of weaksauce fillers they at least managed to start pulling things together to the intensity that made it great. There's no turning back anymore. This season went accross the entire sectrum from the very worst so far to totally mediocre to some of the best. I don't think anything will ever top the Pegasus/RS episode which in IMO are iconic of what BSG was really all about. This whole destiny story can work alright but I can't shake the feeling that its something that belongs in a show like Babylon 5, not BSG.
It's a temporal loop (not really like any STNG crap), it's more fractal in nature, each iteration has a difference however minute.
Each iteration covers over 4 thousand years at the very least.
You guys have to stop thinking so 4 dimensionally...
;)
It's a temporal loop (not really like any STNG crap), it's more fractal in nature, each iteration has a difference however minute.
Each iteration covers over 4 thousand years at the very least.
You guys have to stop thinking so 4 dimensionally...
;)[/QUOTE]
Does not compute. :vorlon: